Overbet turn with draw?
1/1, $200 stacks
CO: opens $6
SB (Hero): 3b $20 with Kh8h
CO: calls
Flop: 10d Jh 5d
Hero: bet $20
CO: calls
Turn: 9h
What should Hero do here? Is overbetting with our big draw to fold one pair hands an option here?
10 Replies
Preflop 3bet is a bit loose, a bit small. I'd 3bet to 25 if I were to 3bet. Probably best folding.
Not sure why we 3bet this hand oop with no reads.
So if we are 3betting this hand, any broadways is a snap 3bet right? All suited connectors is a snap 3bet right? All pocket pairs higher than 8's is also a snap 3bet? Any Ax suited is also a 3bet hand? Now, we are looking at super wide 3bet range oop. Which is probably a huge leak live.
I think people aren't even folding much to 3bets in position live especially for this small.
I guess it's ok if they are fit or fold postflop. But once again, oop, I think they're more inclined to float flops.
I think cbetting this flop is a mistake. Most people float wide on such flop.
Interesting you can cbet air with no problem, now you pick up equity you ask such question.
As played either bet small, or check/shove. Or maybe even a check/call if villain is very passive.
Pot is already 80, you have 160 left. If there is any overbet, it'd be a jam. Not sure we ever have a jamming range here.
fold pre
id just c/f the flop
as played i dont think much of his range is folding, id check.
Jonathan Little's 100bb preflop charts have K9s+ as a 3bet bluff SB vs CO, and ChatGPT says that at 200bb you can 3bet more liberally, so therefore K8s is a 3bet.
Here are the charts:
Are there better charts out there?
Are these charts based on GTO, or the live environment which tends to a stronger opening range and a lower fold to 3bet? More importantly, what raise size are these charts based on, 2.5bb, 3bb? I bet they're not based on a colossal 6bb open raise size. At 6bb I expect GTO responds by calling almost nothing (especially in the blinds), only 3betting, and to do so with a tighter range.
If you take only one thing away from this thread it should be that the nature of how ChatGPT works implies that you should not trust its advice on any technical matter where having a correct answer is important.
That is a really wet board. I don't think an overbet will get many folds.
Lol using Chatgpt.
If you take only one thing away from this thread it should be that the nature of how ChatGPT works implies that you should not trust its advice on any technical matter where having a correct answer is important.
or anything mathematical.
2 years ago, it told me that all continuous functions are differentiable. I kid you not.
Easily disprovable with a simple example, e.g. y= Mod x at x=0.
Are these charts based on GTO, or the live environment which tends to a stronger opening range and a lower fold to 3bet? More importantly, what raise size are these charts based on, 2.5bb, 3bb? I bet they're not based on a colossal 6bb open raise size. At 6bb I expect GTO responds by calling almost nothing (especially in the blinds), only 3betting, and to do so with a tighter r
Yeah, I thnk you nailed it. I could see 3 betting K8s to a 2-3 bb opening deep stacked might make sense, but the opening being 6bb changes all that
Fold pre
Grunch:
PRE - don't 3B K8s, even when the open is from a LP opponent. Just fold.
FLOP - don't c-bet with no pair, just some BD draws. Just check-evaluate.
TURN - I probably check and pray he checks back.
We shouldn't get here the way we did with this hand. We made a mistake pre, and another mistake on the flop. The pot is too big for our hand, so it's time to slow down and pot control.
That said, if you are going to barrel, your hand did pick up a ton of equity on this card, I'd have expected 2P+ to raise flop, and we block some combos of KQ. I'm not sure how much fold equity we have here, but we don't need much with such a massive draw.
The pot is around $80, and we've got $160 left. If you're going to over-bet, I think I'd just jam for 2x pot, to get max fold equity. Pray he doesn't snap call.
