The murder of Charlie Kirk

If you are curious where this "civil war" energy is coming from. Geezer is my neighbor in a coastal blue state, so I guess he is going to relocate to Mississippi to fight with the rebels.

Of course given where our economy and centers of federal government are located, someone should inform MTG that once red and blue states are separated how big the federal government is wont be something she needs to be concerned about anymore.

Lol Jackie Kennedy was too busy shopping and looking for her next rich husband to care. She was a feckless vapid little thing with no spine who only cared about being rich, thin, and famous. Bad example imo.

It certainly won't be the main thing she needs to be concerned about.

I was asking because the political divide in this country is much more rural v. urban than it is geographic. New York and California have areas that are very, very MAGA. And states like Louisiana obviously have areas that are extremely blue.

Bruh

If we are debating in the AI thread the capabilities of LLMs or the proclivity of LLMs to hallucinate, then I understand why posting responses from ChatGPT can be necessary and useful. But I am very much in favor of prohibiting people from dumping large blocks of ChapGPT output into threads for the purpose of proving the truth of the matter asserted or passing judgment on other posters.

In addition to being obnoxious, using LLMs in this way is reckless and reflects a misunderstanding (or lack of concern) for how LLMs work. In order to understand why, just think about what sorts of responses LLMs would have generated if they had existed in the time of the Third Reich and had been exposed primarily to information that was available on an internet controlled by the Third Reich.

I think people who think that MAGA or leftist are the only realistic voting options are the ones who are truly missing the boat here.

In this scenario, are you contemplating that you would be able to rewrite the Constitution or would the plan be to just ignore it? This is a serious question.

I legit don't know how anyone could write these words with a straight face.

The Crusader iconography should have been your first clue, Roc.

Especially given that Candace isn't even a journalist.

Red Hats vs Blue Hats.

But not like the American Civil War which was easily demarcated by region.

Given the huge political divide in this country, a 'hot war' is almost inevitable imo.

For a nation to remain a nation, the people have to be unified by something. And it can be almost anything: religion, race, culture, etc.

I can't think of anything that unifies us as 'Americans' any more.

EDIT: I hope I'm 100% wrong about a Civil War actually happening.

I don't see any constitutional issues there. Then again, I'm not an expert on the constitution. There have been incredibly few scenarios where we didn't have laws on the books which, were they enforced, would prevent most of the gross, high impact malfeasance like the Iraq war.

Do you have any idea how many laws we break giving weapons to Israel? If we just elected people who didn't selectively choose not to apply the laws currently on the books we would be so much better off. I'm basically like a law and order Leftist.

I would also open up all secrets which didn't immediately put law enforcement agents at risk. JFK, 9/11, Epstein - all of it. We have to know the truth and go from there. We have to get from under this shadow government because there is no altruism going on in those shadows. It's all shady corruption and illegalities.

Obama targeted and killed an American citizen in a drone strike. Is extra judicial execution of American citizens enshrined in the constitution, counselor? Why can't I put Obama on trial for his life for that one incident, not to mention 100 gross violations of the law?

Agreed. And the joke is on all of us, because we have to decipher this nonsense. Like Gov Scott didn't realize he was the intended target when he read one of the inscriptions on the bullets, "If you're reading this, you're gay lol.". It's all nonsense, but it's intended to have an obscure point, which is, what you're doing (Kirk, etc..) is nonsense, and it's not enough. We want more, and we're going to goof on this because what else can we really do?

This kid is intelligent, he's not stupid, and shooters like these want to leave messages, otherwise, you don't inscribe bullets.

The right wants you believe he was upset at kirk because his views on gays, and because he's somehow now involved w/ a trans roommate. And that somehow means this otherwise intelligent kid needed to shoot Kirk because he didn't like what he said about trans people. Whether he was someone involved w/ him or not, that's just beyond stupid. Bad detective work. It doesn't add up, and it's beyond sophomoric reasoning.

What's much more likely, and what his background supports, is that he was raised in extremist values, and the positions he saw Kirk and other MAGA's taking, wasn't extreme enough for him. So he wanted to send a message. He wanted to get people talking about a MAGA movement he thought wasn't going far enough. Which he has now accomplished.

I wish someone would hack and release his discord. It's going to all be there.

Not really. Even after the civil war there was rampant racial hatred and even the burning down of black neighborhoods by the Klan and other white mobs. It never escalated into full civil war.

Deuces' comment reminded me of debates that I have had with Nut Nut and several other people here.

They advocate for XYZ, I contend that XYZ isn't viable because of a combination of political dysfunction and lack of actual support for XYZ, and they respond either by saying that there is overwhelming support for XYZ or by making sweeping pronouncements about how it doesn't have to be that way.

What is my point? I guess my point is that certain political goals are fundamentally incompatible with existing democratic structures and may even be incompatible with new hypothetical democratic institutions that have been built from the ground up. If you believe that those political goals are important enough, then maybe, for you, they take primacy over democracy and simply have to be pursued through whatever means necessary.

But if that is the case, I think it is better for the advocate to just acknowledge as much rather than pretend that we can magic the achievement of the goals through a democratic process.

It's been like this since our founding. You've always had 1/3rd and sometimes more of this country that just wants a white Christian ethnostate. This fight has never gone away in our American history. It just continues to rise up, cause chaos, suffering, and death, get defeated, slither away and then rise up again.

We talk about right, left politics, but really this is just about tolerance vs intolerance. There's some people that only want things a specific way. They can't handle people with different ideas, that look different, love different, and see the world different. And then there's those that can, and understand the beauty and strength in those differences.

The thing these traitors to America don't understand is... tolerance is the KEY building block that actually did make America great. And if you get rid of it, you're destroying the essence of what separates America from nearly every other country on the planet.

Seizing intellectual property without compensation certainly seems like it would run afoul of the Takings Clause.

I don't see how we can simply jail politicians without trial and send them to the Hague without violating the due process clause.

I don't think the conduct you described meets the definition of treason in the Constitution. (I understand it might meet colloquial usage of the term treason, but that's a different question.) I strongly suspect that imposing the death penalty on the range of people you want to impose it on would be deemed a violation of the Eighth Amendment.

Calling me "counselor" doesn't change reality. And my asking of this question doesn't require me to defend everything that the U.S. government does, much of which I strongly oppose.

My Russian friend says MTJ would have gotten 6-10 years in jail for declaring war on your own country.

I guess we're not quite there to Russian standards yet... but we're on the fast slope down my friends. Yeeea-haaay!

if your so sure make me that bet. people always talk probability but the only way to confirm if they actually believe it is with money. (its a horrible bet there's probably under 10k groypers in the entire ****ing world vs billions of left wingers) but I take peoples money for a living so just dm

I'd love to know how this bet would be adjudicated. There is zero chance that the two of you would ever agree on what conclusion the facts support, even if all the facts were known and undisputed.

Honestly, if I thought for sure we would get the clear truth, I'd bet any amount on this. And I'll tell you why...

... I know of ZERO left-wingers that know anything about what a groyper is. I sure as fk didn't. Why would a random left-winger be in that tiny world, as you just said, enough to know it, and also want to inscribe bullet casing of their common sayings, to shoot a man in Kirk, that gryopers have beef with, because they think mainstream MAGA's like kirk, don't go far enough. The cherry on the top is, look at how the kid was raised. It was like an extremist utopia.

Sht, I might even lay you reverse odds even though as you say, there are way more lefties out there. But we're currently in the process of being Mueller reported, so even if the truth does come out, people like you likely will never believe it, so there's no way to settle any kind of bet.

And calling for the destruction of our union.

Meanwhile, 100% of ICE agents are likely right-wingers. Wonder if we can get numbers on that? That's at least something static we can verify.

It's not the first time I've missed the boat, but I'm pretty good at putting together incomplete information... or so I'm told. 😀

Personally, I'm not excluding maga online nerd extremist, who knows the world of gropyer... but what leans me into that ideology is all the work of taking their messaging to shell casings, and that people around him said he had become more political.

But it's def right on right imho. What is your bet?

Civil wars are fought over economic control. Period.