Best response to a reg's 10x pf 3bets?

I dunno, when I size up my 3bets i usually have them.

I only size down with more speculative hands.

If I use my own line of thoughts, I'm only continuing super tight ranges unless he 3bets all the time. If he does I'll probably start 4betting light.

If he's 3betting more than 15% of the effective stack then I probably only 4bet jam or fold. Might get tricky and flat with premiums if he's always folding to 4bet shoves.

I would fold a lot to that sizing. Only call or 4! with a strong range.

It's difficult to answer the question without knowing something about his 3-betting range.

This is a good excuse to take a spin with MDF maths. Even if you're going to exploit them one way or the other, based on the first range you posted I think it'd be illuminating to get a baseline of how much you need to be defending.

Adjustments you can make are open smaller and (if he's truly 3bing a lot) a little tighter. Always feels hard to gauge what "fairly frequent basis" means without being at the table...

Is he 3-betting huge just you or you more than others? What percent of the time is he 3-betting? Is he 3-betting that size whenever he 3-bets?

you can't call with mid pocket pairs here. 88-1010 particularly. massive losing play.

you really need just to watch and start reviewing how he plays post and what he shows down. have you seen this 10 times or just 2/3?

bad regs will upsize jj-kk with 3 bets to take it down without overcards hitting

Thanks for the responses! Re his 3-betting range I've only played a few times with him recently, so don't have a lot of sample data. Also he's only very rarely had to showdown his hand. I haven't seen him bet this size against anyone else, and I play a reasonably TAG opening range from EP and MP, so it seems a bit strange that he seems to be targetting me with this play. So far I've only had small/medium pairs and hands like T9s when he's done this, and he's always been in LP or the blinds.

Do you ever play back at him? How often as a rough percentage does he do this to you? Does he ever do it if your raise has been called? You said he's only rarely needed to show but when he shows what do you see? Assuming you always have been folding wouldn't you target someone you knew would fold if you did?

believe the sizing is egregious enough here where actual strategic change is warranted

if you open to 20 and he 3bets to 70 hes risking 70 to win 30 so you'd need to defend ~30 of your opening range. if you're mp thats like 6% of hands, if you're button thats like 13.5% of hands
here though he risking 200 to win 30 so you need to defend ~14% of your opening range. if you're mp thats 2.5% of hands and if you're button thats like ~6.5% of hands.
his sizing also leaks a ton of ev depending how many people are left to act behind him depending what hes raising

if you're looking for the math
its what hes risking / (what hes risking + whats in the pot)
then you take that % and multiply it by each position's opening range.

should be really easy to come up with continue ranges here given how much you get to fold and its conceivable we're never flatting. tbh would err on letting him run me over but

think its actually slightly less unless hes in the bb 3betting us but idk how to do that

it feels alot like i set up the sim wrong but if i give u opening around 15% he is supposed to only be able to 3b aa / akss pure, and then mix kk / ako / bluffs for this size. my guess is he isn't doing that and is too wide

i nodelocked him a bit wider

i have never really done preflop solve before so have no idea if this is right or not but feels ok intuitively but i have your response (as like mp opener) 4b jamming QQ+ / AK. and never continuing otherwise. it mixes in small 4b w some AA / KQss / occasionally qq but that feels overly complicated to me for little gain. is important to realize if he is too depolar / folds too much vs jam (supposed to pure call qq and mix ako) you can start jamming relativley light id imagine as ev of jamming like a5ss or aqss here is -3bb

as soon as i keep everything else equal but have him fold qq half the time, it jams all the axss and pairs, and the small 4b strat becomes much more heavily used (centered around mix kk / pure aa/ mix akss / bluffs)

believe thinking about it as an actionable strategy you can jam AKo / QQ-KK / maybe AKss if you want, and small 4b AA / A5ss / whatever combos of AKss you dont jam as a start and see what happens (when you're ip as like ep-co). solver dont seem to like the a5ss combos as a bluff but i think they make sense and are easy to remember. i think the assumption in this sim too is theres alot of ax that bb (your opp) is 3betting that will fold to 4b but we dont necessarily know how he constructs his range in practice

later positions i think you're going to have to have a more complicated strategy. my guess is once you play back once or twice he stops doing this

when i look at button opening range and how to play vs 10x 3b hes allowed to 3b JJ+, AKo, then mostly plays a polar range similar to bb vs btn (i believe the underlying idea is IP is not going to flat the 3b very often so 3betting hands like AQss / AJss large error here range wise compared to flatting them and 3betting the offsuit broadways or like q7ss type hands). again i highly doubt random at 5/5 is doing this or even understands the implications of his strategy / bet sizing but i like to look at solver to see what is supposed to be happening. vs this very polar range we can play jams and small 4b or just jams i guess, not much flatting. the flats are centered around strong suited broadways that dominate his polar hands, and some strong pairs we dont want to jam (think 99-jj at some freq) and we more or less pure trap aa here. biggest mistake i think you can make vs his strategy is to call the 3b too wide

10x is huge, that’s basically playing for stacks. i’d only continue with JJ+/AK, maybe trap AA/KK. don’t flat light, you’ll just bleed chips.

one corollary or worry of this or whatever you want to call it. and i think it applies both to you and this reg, but also in general vs other people, is you want to make really sure you don't have some kind of live / sizing tell that he's pouncing on here. like in theory this doesn't look great compared to other options, but if the other guy is a reg / winner / thinking player there's usually a reason he's doing it vs you and no one else.

the few times ive played vs *suspected* super users, is the only time i've really experienced any kind of similar strategy on a regular basis fwiw. is unlikely he's cheating if he's only doing this vs you, but i would imagine there's a reason this is happening (i default to sizing tell but maybe live tells as well, esp if you've never continued vs it). tbh i would put way more intention on that than coming up with a theoretical counter strategy

cant spam a million posts here but my mp and btn sims are probably not super comparable as i nodelocked the 3b range vs mp but not btn. am likely not going to spend too much more time looking at this though as it feels like another thread where im signif more interested than op / others :( and its somewhat annoying to set up with marginal takeaways. you do need to understand that your counter will depend on where you open from, even if you want to bucket them together as just all positions vs btn. but like if you fold a bit too much he probably makes something like half a bb or whatever, whereas his mistakes are going to be much much larger ev wise.

You want to get some idea of his range when he's doing this, you can probably consider how many hands you play an hour and how many times he 3bets you. So if you see 30 hours per hour and play for 6 hours and he 3bets you 3x, well thats 1/60 or roughly 1.5%, which is very different from 6%. Also these numbers will be fuzzy without a large sample size, so if you can see what he does it with, so much the better.

I would start by assuming that's he tightening up a lot and deviate when you have evidence to support that.

You need consider the overall game meta. If the table plays reasonably well, then this guy effectively becomes your mark, because he is offering to play for stacks in every 3bet pot. If the table is whale-heavy, then spend less time developing exploits against him because when he 3bets you, you only want action with the nuts until you have evidence that he has a wider range than he should.

As mentioned above, you can build your response around a 4bet/fold strategy. If he's doing this a lot, consider dropping weaker/marginal portions of your range but be more willing to stack off light.

Lot of overthinking going on here.

Guy has figured out that you open weak (T9, 55, etc) OOP and knows you can’t stand the heat. It’s not wise to open mediocre hands out of position.

Probably thinks you’re opening wide from late position too, and attacks from the blinds.

He makes a bet you can’t call. That’s the exploit. His range is probably wider than yours, but he has major ‘fold equity’.

I think this is not very different from a situation where everyone limps and the button bets huge and folds all those marginals.

Easy counter, tighten up - your reasonable TAG ranges OOP sound too wide. I would change seats if necessary, but get position on this guy so you see his action and can make better decisions.

^
Agree that we should review ranges and tighten up. Don't agree that we shouldn't spend much time thinking about specifically addressing this villain. Note the opening premise, OP is playing 240bb+ deep with a guy who is offering to play for stacks with every 3bet. We don't often get big stacks in, therefore we should pay a lot of attention to situations where this occurs. Caveat is that if this there are a bunch of people playing worse or crazier, sure as always look for the money.

TL;DR If a guy wants to flip for $1200+ several times per session, it's worth spending a couple of hours figuring out how to max our gains.

Never call, jam a typical range of something like JJ+ AK. If he goes after you hard or you see a light showdown then expand.

Yeah this. OP, are you by any chance someone who opens JJ+ 8x and 55/T9s 4x?

Agreed you could have some tell V has observed.

Also agree you can exploit this V with a strat that involves a mix of 4B jamming, 4B'ing small, and some flatting.

If I understand Sub's posts correctly, it seems like the continue range is going to be pretty tight. I wonder if we can infer from that that our opening ranges should likewise tighten up a bit, to include fewer hands that we'll need to fold to a 10x 3B, and fewer hands that love continuing as a flat call.

It does seem like trapping this V by flatting some big hands, especially when we're IP, is just going to print.

I agree the analysis shouldn't stop at MDF, just thought it was a helpful place to start.

Especially in light of some other responses that seem concerned about allowing villain to print here. Basic math will tell you* whether folding 88/AJo/JTs will let villain own you.

I do think your point about assessing any tells you might be giving off is sharp. That'll give much more insight into your "getting owned" potential than how you play the middle of your range.

*Not you specifically obviously lol

barring him seeing your cards or having some rounders level live / sizing tell, there's only so many hands he can get away with reasonably 3betting before our counter becomes fuallin. esp from anything besides the button hes probably 3betting like 3-4% of the time or something (theoretically this is supposed to be less than people using normal sizes) and i would not adjust opening frequencies. if you wanted to tighten up slightly otb when hes in blinds, sure but i don't really see the sim showing me that his 3betting strategy is lowering the ev of our opens (if anything our opens seem to have slightly higher ev). caveat like i said is i am unfamiliar running pre sims. but i just dont think this guy is 3betting enough that we should be changing our strategy, and if he is you should be 4b jamming really aggressively to combat instead of opening marginally tighter

Not at all. This has been quite valuable. Thank you for the time it took to generate those sims.

My guess about your question, 'why solver isn't bluffing weaker Axs combos,' is that H blocks a lot of the Ax combos V should have in their range when making this play, leaving more PPs in V's call a ship range that H does poorly against.

Completely agree that H should review themselves, and see what about them specifically is giving V the green light to mess with them, and no one else at the table. And that such self-review is likely more efficient than a bunch of time spent generating a counter-strat.

OP, there is already a lot of good advice in this thread. I want to add in that you should spend some time reviewing 3bet defend ranges. The range of hands that you propose defending to a gigantic 10x 3bet here in the bolded quote is exceptionally wide. Some of these hands (AJo in particular) should be folded even to a standard size 3bet in most positions.

V was sharp enough to spot OP’s tell but not enough to be suspicious of a flat?

I have no calling range if I'm OOP to an IP 3! at 1200 deep. Shove TT+ and AK and AQs. IP I call with a few big PPs.