Set 3way turn size
1-2-4 440 deep
We open 44 utg 15, utg+1 bad reg c, bu c, sb big whale c, straddle tight passiv rec c
75 Flop Qs 7s 4d
Xx we bet 50(i know it's huge but we expect almost same calling ranges) utg+1, whale and rec call
275 turn 6h 375 left
Any other sizing except shove? Feel like half pot will get a lot of the time 2 or 3 calls and overbet folds too much out. My estimation would be that we get 2 calls on average w half psb and most of the time 3 folds by shoving and we have probably 70%. Ended up shoving.
7 Replies
If you're going to size up with your flop c-bet, why not pot it, to set up an easy pot size jam on the turn?
My thinking is that any hand that calls a 2/3p c-bet multi-way is going to be pretty inelastic and will probably call a full PSB.
Why do I feel like we're going to hear someone called with 85 or 53, or got there on the river with spades?
We only have a easy shove if 3 people call and turn kinda bricks. No, and you completely missing the point here. We often have more than one draw against us and want 3 calls.
100 should deny adequate odds to the flush they're probably drawing to, and keeps more of them in. If your image permits it, and why not, given they've called your 4x from UTG and 70%-ish bet on the flop, sure go ahead and shove.
Probably just betting 100 and trying to fade 7 outs, (or lol, the 6 more flop OESD outs) is higher EV though. Edit, or the 1/2 pot you mention.
I tend to just over-shove in these cases which I think is a leak.
If we do bet say 100, are we going to be disciplined enough to get away when a non-pairing draw card comes in? Because if we're not, they were effectively right in calling getting implied odds, even though they were not getting direct odds.
I dont mind making it a 2 street game. Can also consider check-raising flop so the turn jam is more pallatable. Hard to say which of these guys might stab the flop. Normally if it's nothing but fish on my left I opt to bet cuz like ya know, they dont fold.
Multiway
When they all check to you, bet pot and they will all fold. When you shove the turn, they will all fold.
I think you’re likely to stay ahead - you block straight draws and likely dodge the flush. Unless you have a strong reason to believe V will defy the population and call a shove, I like betting $185 turn, $190 river.
If they don’t call the river, you still get more value than folding them with a shove.
If you're going to size up with your flop c-bet, why not pot it, to set up an easy pot size jam on the turn?
My thinking is that any hand that calls a 2/3p c-bet multi-way is going to be pretty inelastic and will probably call a full PSB.
Why do I feel like we're going to hear someone called with 85 or 53, or got there on the river with spades?
Expanding on this.
You flopped bottom set as the PFR with 44 on Q74 two-tone in a SRP that went super-multiway. Your hand is usually best, unless someone shows up with 77, because they shouldn't have QQ. Although at these stakes, anything's possible.
The goal should be to play for stacks, with as much money going into the pot as possible, as soon as possible. Playing a two-street game is fine, in fact preferable than trying to spread the bets out over three streets, with a hand that is vulnerable to all sorts of draws, or someone just making a higher set.
With so many opponents, someone should have connected with the board enough to continue if you bet full pot. Someone should have QX, or 65, or spades, etc. At low stakes, there's often some idiot that gets to the flop with 88-JJ and can't release it to a single bet.
So there are PLENTY of hands we can get value from, and most of them are going to be pretty inelastic, meaning they're calling a $50 bet or a $75 bet, and maybe even a $100 bet.
What you don't want to do is give four opponents a good price to suck out on us, because other than an offsuit 2, another 4, or an offsuit ace or a king, there are literally no cards that won't potentially make someone a better hand.
Just pot it, and look to jam most turns. If someone gets to the turn with 85, 53, or 66, there's just nothing we can do about it. We didn't raise with 44 pre just to play defensively when we flop bottom set.
