Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

hate the limp re-raise enough to consider calling ownership to have your mod powers revoked - jm3 could easily handle your workload 😀

My thought here is that everyone but LAG1 is capped, so though I don't hate taking it down, I'm looking for a size that might get me a caller or two for value. Smallest I was considering was $60 and largest $100. It seems to me that anything over $100 just gets folds from everyone except maybe a shove from LAG1, yes?

Definitely don't think HJ will shove. I've seen him flat for over half his stack twice already. He won both, which is how he got up to $100. He only had about $35 when I sat down, and was still flatting opens.

You only have 300, if you make it even 85 it looks just as strong as 125 because you look just as committed (which you will be with this hand) ... but you lose 40 for every caller that folds flops.

If shorty shrug calls 85 off a 100 stack and then folds flop HU ... that might be the most hilarious outcome though.

Question 2: As I'm counting out raising chips, LAG1 telegraphs a fold. Does this change our sizing?

Not for me. Shorty could still get in his whole stack preflop cuz POT ODDS.

GcluelesspotoddsnoobG

I really wouldn't underestimate the ability of loose-passives to double flat pre. I will cold 3b (or raise an open-limp) OOP 6x over an open and a single call and people will call sometimes, and almost never snap fold.

But more importantly, I really do not want this to go massively multiway. There are four players left to act and a smaller raise getting called in earlier position is almost certain to drag along loose-passive callers IP. Maybe it's +EV because of the long odds, but to me it's just massively uncompensated variance. I would much rather win the 20bb in the pot now than significantly risk this.

Results:

Re: Garick limp/reraise QQ hand. Seems like the Villains in the hand gave you the right amount of respect. Maybe limp reraising premiums UTG isn't a good way for you to get value.

Taking down $60 preflop uncontested seems a little underwhelming for a premium pair. Not the worst outcome possible, but definitely underwhelming because we don't get dealt premiums often.

It matters a lot to our winrate whether we can get max value with our premiums or not.

I’m gonna guarantee that if you went though any crusher’s hand history database, none of them would average 20bb every time they got QQ

Now that doesn’t mean I like the play too much- I’d rather open larger and or wider from EP or limp re raise a ton of semi bluffs too. But 20bb is ****ing great for QQ

Results oriented thinking that doesn't justify the limp/reraise if Garick is getting folds from all the players often after they entered the pot for $15. There are occasional times when his QQ is going to run into KK/AA from the LAGfish PFR too. Even LAGfishes get dealt Kings and Aces too.

If Garick doesn't get any action from any of the four players who entered the pot for $15, he is winning smallish pots quite often, but he is going to lose a few big pots when his limp/reraise runs into KK+

The whole reason I wrote my response because of your results oriented thinking ‘$60 uncontested seems underwhelming’

Taking down 60 in a 1/3 game variancefree with QQ is hardly underwhelming.

Yes,if we could have it perfect we would like more action from one player that cant let go of their 86s or 33 or whatever.

If that gonna happen or not also depends on other stuff such as game dynamics,is the player losing in the game on tilt or is it in the beginning of the game where most of the table is on their first buyin. That sort of stuff.

What i am saying is that just cause we didnt get optimal action from any villain this particular time,doesnt mean we cant get it next time around with the same limp/reraise line.

If we could trade in QQ preflop every time and receive 20bb in return, that would be a spectacular deal. Pretty sure 10bb would be a good deal, online returns are more like ~3bb for QQ I believe. Live should be higher, doubt it's 10bb in all but the softest lineups.

Ah please, do not destroy / straw man what feel wrath said with your bullshit.

True, 60$ free is good.

However, what you fail to realize or mention or think about here, is that this is only a fraction of the queens.

To be here with queens, you need seven pair of queens. There's gonna be the open queen everybody folds. There's gonna be open queens there's an ace on the board and some dude goes all in, etc.

So really, this spot, where multiple people has put 60$ preflop, and then you're there with queens that's most likely the best hand, -and that's your turn to act-, is a pretty rare occurrence, amongst the times queens is dealt.

Feel wrath stands correct, you really do want them to call while keeping a balanced fold equity, in a beautiful and rare spot. A spot that's four levels more rare than simply getting dealt queens.

If anything, I'd advise on the safer side of the raise size, as long as said raise size doesn't tacitly allow everybody to call without thinking twice, which would kind of be a disaster because now there's a lot of hands that can make a hand.

V1 15$ V2 15$ V3 15$ V4 15$ Hero has queens here. IS THE ****ING SPOT IM SALIVATING ABOUT BEFORE EVEN ENTERING THE CASINO, IT IS SO RARE, DO YOU HAVE ANY ****ING IDEA HOW MANY PAIR OF QUEENS YOU NEED TO SEE THIS EXACT ****ING SPOT WHEN YOU'RE ACTUALLY WAITING FOR IT, AND YOU GET DEALT QUEENS AND WOULDN'T YOU KNOW, ITS NOT THAT SPOT. ****ING BEGINNERS LUCK UP YOUR ASS.

This spot is actually so rare that I dont give a **** about anything. You flop a set on me here? Take my money. I dont give a ****. Oh you trapped aces as third caller? Take my money. No ace no king no pair on board, I'm going to the moon. You want to fill up your flush, im gonna make you pay dude. Anything that doesnt beat queens here, you will pay.

This spot is where the juice is, other than the pinnacle nuts vs second nuts on the river. Its pretty much it.

Most of the times you will have queens, you will not have the opportunity to possibly take down 60$ free preflop. You're not even gonna have that.

This is the I take one hand out of ten thousand and come talk about it here syndrome, its like, its already a dream spot, try to not **** it up, and go into it softly.

Spots more dreamy than this they are kind of thoughtless, like okay you go all in I have the nuts... mh mh what to do what to do. Also idk if it exist but there should be a word for the nuts-that-always-wins. Ive been disappointed in my life so many times, having the nuts stresses me out. I need a word for the hand where I have the nuts and the win is a guarantee. Its like the super nuts. The super duper whataalalalalal

If you want to realize how rare this spot is, just think about it all the time like I do, and watch the pain of the deception. You will see that most queens, they're usually not after this kind of action. It just sucks. Its so rare I kind of dont even wanna think about it, cuz it makes queens suck.

Queens sucking me out, I dont know if I wanna play poker anymore. Maybe strip poker.

This spot is sooooooooooo juicy. Soooo ****ing juicy. Or should I say, creamy. What the ****.

Are you high on something or what? Jesus,you are spewing like there is no tomorrow.

I have to jump on the train of strong disagreement here.

Vs are not really giving "the right amount of respect" by opening and overcalling assuming his original limping range is appropriately tight.

The value obtained by buying the pot preflop is fantastic. To put it in range terms, if I got paid 20bb to open fold even a tight 6% 3b range, I would play only that and be printing 30+ bb/hr. The icing on the cake is that we are selectively doing this OOP, which is even better. And QQ is probably one of the specific combos most happy to not go multiway.

You guys are all missing the point. Yes, all these players should have been worried about the UTG limp being a trap. If they were playing super well, the LAGfish behind the UTG limp should have considered the possibility of a trap and maybe overlimped instead. And the other players who ended up flatting his raise should have considered the possibility of UTG limper going for a limp reraise. Maybe they should have just folded to the $15 raise the first time around.

But they all realized that continuing to the limp reraise was a bad idea, so they all folded.

That means that Garick ended up taking a line that allowed them to get away for $15 apiece. If any of those guys had AJ offsuit, KQ offsuit, QJs/QTs, or small suited 1 gappers like T8s/97s/86s...that's a disaster for our pocket QQ because those hands tend to have bad equity versus QQ when they connect semi-hard with the flop.

Limp reraising UTG is so well known in 2025 as a really strong line for premiums that people are finding preflop folds to it at a 1/3 NLHE game (not 5/10 or 10/20 NLHE)...

Think about that.

For all the people congraluating on the limp reraise taking down $60 preflop, please remember that it could have easily ended up a multiway limped instead sometimes. And Garick would have lost a massive amount of preflop value if it got limped around.

am so out of practice and this spot annoyed me.

eff stacks 1100 ish 2/5/10.

Villain is in the SB is a good reg - only decent one at the table tbh. I've never played with him before but he's started out quiet and then opened up over the past few hours and has been 3 betting a lot. Late 20s and has a nice TAG game

Hero is MAWG - I've hardly played the past few years and haven't played with this villain before, but I've been talking with two other long term regs at the table. I've been playing TAG too, so guessing I'm seen as decent ish by villain?

Only hand of note with Villain. Folds to me in BB and I bet 35 with QQ he calls from straddle. Flop was 554r, I bet 25, he raises to 75, I call. Turn was a 10 goes check check. River a J, I lead 100 he calls and MHIG.

the hand/spot

Folds to Hero on Button with AQo. I open to 30
SB 3 bets to 120.

I would think he's 3 betting perhaps 10% in this spot, maybe more, so I'm ahead of his range. Do I flat and play in position or 4 bet? If I 4 bet, what size?

I flatted.

Flop (255) is J74 he bets 55. I can't fold here I don't think? But he's gonna bet almost every turn IMO and probably big. (I would). Assuming I don't hit and we get another card below a 10, do I just fold turn or keep calling? I just hate guessing when his range can be wide

meh - a common spot but I'm thinking a small 4 bet, perhaps to 290... and I probably have to fold to a shove...allows me to take control of the hand and use my position better? Otherwise it feels like I'm folding a ton post flop?

Im okay with how you played it.

AQ call pre into fold post was beautiful.

As for advice;

AQ a bit weak, I'd have minimum AQs+ here. Everything else is already in the muck to the raise. Even AQs I have to train myself to call here, its actually a call, my weakness is I tend to fold it and wait for even better.

Him, I dont think he's bluffing 100% of the time here.. This exact reg type, they tend to be more bluffy post, pre its not impossible but he very well might have kings here, but its still a call with AQs+

Listen dude, theres no way around it, you gonna have to allow yourself to be bluffed against him specifically some of the time.

Tips against him are :

He's generally a very predatory type. He's trying to figure you out early, and that's where you failed a long time ago previous to those two hands you mentionned.

He needs to think you're confident and always have it kinda of player. Then, you pull off a huge bluff that he somehow notices it was you bluffing, now hes gonna switch his game and start bluffing you more, and thats where you switch your game and call more catch him having top pair+. Hes also usually a type thats a one bullet kinda guy. Like his bluff is huuuuuge and fearless and in a spot where you already put a decent amount of money, but you call hes done with it. So yeah, I think the 55$ could be a bluff but is ulikely so since that would be a theoritical double barrel.

If he thinks youre confident and have it kinda player, his bluffs goes near nil. When he sees you "playing the game" now he switch. Deception against him works very well, a little check or weak bet there and there goats him into thinking he can bluff you. So use with caution too, you dont wanna be in that bluff mind game in the hand you showed, because thats three streets.

Anyway. My very first advice is actually to just avoid him. Listen, I know, and you know; that you are a better player. That's not the reason, oky. The reason is that hes just the better player at the table after you, helps with variance and ****, just generally farm the weaker players and wiggle around the shark. Hes very adaptative style, so he usually bluffs when he thinks something about weakness or too loose or too fold happy. Also hes the kinda guy that has "planned bluff", like no matter what happens, no matter what he has, he already planned to bluff that turn no matter what, and shut down on the river if caught.

So you wanna ride the fine line of not paying him off, because hes trying to make hands the whole way trhought, calling his bluffs sometimes.

At the very same time, you dont want to pay off his big bets that he built an image for, you need to see trhought that **** you know hes trying to make big hands and be called for huge amounts while pretending he always bluffs, and you can be selective about the hands.

TBH, he bluffs too much, actually, but the hero dont need to be you.

What works marvels is to just know before hand. In a way, im playing a hand against this guy in particular, Im already in the mindset that somehow someway the pot is gonna be ridiculously high stakes in comparision to regular hands with the rest of the table. So AQ is good for that (at least when you hit something).

If you pay close attention to him, you will notice that he watches you and analyse you a lot. He made up his mind about you. Its all bullshit, he doesnt know much of nothing and he very might well be imagining things, but the reality is still that he acts fearlessly on what he thinks about you.

If you check to him and hes last to act you need to know hes gonna bet, unless he feels he already got caught. So yeah, adding a little bit of pay off wizardry against him in few spots is actually very profitable.

Like pocket 10. River is a king. You check. He bets huge. Call !!!!!!!!!

AQ, Q77 flop, 10 turn. You bet he raise huge. Call !!!!!!!!

Thats how you get this guy. Other than the obvious spots we dont need to talk about. But it helps to ground your game in a sense that, you onow, youre not nut pedalling, and not getting abused folding way more than necessary, while still not thinking he bluffs all the time.

If you go straight up standart against him, youre folding too much.

So yeah, in a way its kind of better to fold early and quick and be more value oriented, the pot is more or less guarantee to get bigger than usual, so you dont need to play as much. In a way, he makes the blinds "smaller". He proly has floats in his game too. Like call flop raise turn give up river thats typical, so you dont want to get too caught up he hs a set everytime there, because the rest of the table probably do have a set+ when they do that.

The reason you fold there on the flop is that its just too dangerous. You really dont want to be paying him off for three streets with A high and be shown a whatever I hit that board or had a pair already.

Nah 4 bet is atrocious here. You wanna stick to your initial game plan, 4bet with kings+

Loose calls, he hits the flop, or begins to bluff, or chase a draw, or has pair in hand, too many stuff out of your control, kings+ is the great equalizer.

So yeah top pair and less, you really wanna be in a situation where youre not too far off the river, will reduce anxiety. With the 55$ flop bet that follows his previous aggression, maybe he b'uff maybe he has something, but the bottom line is you dont know and theres a lot of streets left. Give yourself a break n fold is fine.

Where you dont wanna be outplayed is the middleground. The casual oh I got mid pair, you dont want to lose your questionnable value to him.

I think 4b/fold small to like 250 is probably preferable. I don't love flatting offsuit combos even in IP, but it's not terrible. Solver is mostly 4b this but a little bit of calling depending on assumptions.

Seems standard. "I have to defend this little flop bet so I can fold to a big turn bet" is just life going to a flop as the caller and why small cbet into big turn bet is a popular strategy. I don't currently have access to a ton of solves, but in a simplified configuration it prefers to lead for b50 primarily (since you're missing top of range I think?), but will mix folds even on the flop and suit texture matters. But SB is probably c-betting range pure here, which is more aggressive than a solver, so calling seems right especially for the tiny size. Facing a (larger) bet on a brick turn is an obvious pure fold.

+1 to these, imo

It's not this simple, imo. Even if it limps around, G has a big disguised pocket pair, a big playable SPR, and 3 whole streets to get some money in the pot where he can simply play poker. There's still value to be had, and you add that value to the time he's able to get in a 3bet preflop, he is still doing fine... but even more importantly likely getting himself into a situation that he is comfortable with (and will therefore do ~alright in overall).

I know the LRR method is very contentious, but I think if you look at it from what we're trying to accomplish (which is mostly to simply get in a 3bet) it is fine. Would anyone dump on G if he was in the BB and 3bet the laggy open + loose calls (and therefore ~"losing massive value from AJ/KQ/QJs/QTs/etc. correctly folding")? Of course not. 3betting preflop against a wide open with some loose callers *prints* and that's all we're trying trying to do here, and in EP (and I'd argue in MP too) the best way to get in that 3bet is by limping in.

But, like any method, there are pros and cons, and sometimes things go a little sideways. I've spoilered the following HH because it is mostly just for lol's:

GcluelesssidewaysnoobG

So I had a question mostly for you that I didn't want to pose on pain of starting the LRR debate, but since we're here I'll ask...

Hero limps AA UTG and it goes 7 ways limped to a 752r flop. Two checks to Hero, what's the plan for maximum value (assume SPR is 10 to 20 depending on player)? In part I think it's just rough because AA in particular does not want to play a limped flop but either you split range or put up with it, but figure you have way more experience so I'm curious.

Would also just say that open limping is not GTO, but it's worth a long consideration why not, what the GTO response would be, and what live players actually do 😀

Personally, I would pretty much never raise postflop with just one showdownable pair in a very multiway high SPR pot (I think it's massively overplaying). Almost every decision when facing a bet is between a sigh/evaluate call and a nitty fold (which will sometimes be a mistake, but typically in a relatively smallish pot with very little invested, so no biggee), imo.

FWIW, and I've mentioned this before regarding people hating on the LRR method, but everyone's fave YT'er HHP I believe (?, I'm not a superfanboy like others so correct me if I'm wrong) advocates for having a 0% raising range in the SB to a Button straddle. Yes, it's different than just being UTG, but is it really so much different to be black & white massively "incorrect"?

GcluelessLRRnoobG