Gray-haired poker TRs: Living the WSOP dream

This reminds me of the story of when Benny Binion was in charge at 'Binions Horseshoe' downdown. The casino was known for having no limit on a player's first bet of craps. However, one time a gentleman arrived with such a gigantic amount that it would have put the casino's entire operation in danger should the guy win his bet.

Benny Binion therefore had no choice but to deny the gentlemen his craps wager. He was not pleased and said "I thought you guys had no limit on the first bet?". Benny replied "I thought so too".

That's actually quite a decent structure. They are definitely not skipping any levels, so even with just 20 minute blinds you would have time to be a bit patient and wait for good spots.

I am making this mistake a bit too often myself in tournaments; trying to semi-slow play a vunerable top pair hand. But it's generally not a good idea.

On a board of Q-8-5-6, there are many hands that could have improved significantly:

- 97 (gutshot on flop) is now a straight.
- The same goes for 74, another hand he could check behind.
- 56 now has two pair.
- 67 (if he did not bet on flop) now has a lot of equity, same with 54.

Especially in a Blind vs Blind situation I think this is a mandatory bet on flop. So much stuff that can call you, and your hand is not as invulnerable as you probably thought in game.

WSOP Circuit, Hammond, Indiana, The Closer (Part 3)
I’m dealt A-A, and a monster pot ensues for the clear table chip lead

Level 4
300/500/500

I am UTG+1 and I open to 1,500 with K-Q suited (spades). Four players call. The flop is A-3-9, no spades. Everyone checks. The turn is another A. There is a bet, and I fold.

End of level 4: 33,500 chips.

…..

Level 5
300/600/600

First a little history lesson. Well, recent history. Two weeks ago, I wrote the following in this thread (post #1,384): “I am in the middle of my first sustained period of run bad since I started playing online again. The poker Gods are clearly angry with me. During the last two weeks of online play, I have been dealt A-A in the big blind five times, which is the dream. Should be the dream. Hasn't been the dream. Has been a nightmare. Every single time I got my money in great only to see my aces get cracked. Every time. The next time I get dealt A-A in the big blind, am I supposed to fold? Kidding. Sort of. Yeah, I'm kidding. And of the last 13 times I have been dealt A-A in any position at the table, I have lost 10 times. And the three times I won, everyone folded to my pre flop open so I won the minimum.”

Fast forward to level 5 today. Five players limp, and I look down at A-A. No way I want to play aces against five opponents. I raise to 4,000 and get called by four players. One of the callers is a new player to the table, who I will later find out won his first WSOP Circuit ring a week earlier here in this Circuit stop. CircuitRingWinner says to me about my raise to 4,000 followed by four calls, “That got no respect.” I respond, “I guess I scare no one.” The flop is 9-6-3 rainbow. There are already a lot of chips in the middle and with so many players in the hand I decide to make a fairly chunky bet. CircuitRingWinner calls, and everyone else folds. The turn is a K. I go all-in. CircuitRingWinner says, “I guess that puts me all-in, and he calls. There is something like 80,000 chips in the middle. The winner of the hand will be the table chip leader. Before I can turn over my cards, CircuitRingWinner quietly says to me, “Your aces just got cracked.” I turn over A-A. He turns over K-K. The turn K gave him a set. The river did not save me. I am down to 6,000 chips. I take it in stride with a wry smile and no comment, but the rppoker run bad is real and it is not over. My A-A hands continue to get cracked an astonishingly high percentage of the time (around 70%) during my current bout of The Run Bad Virus.

End of level 5: 6,000 chips.

Artificial intelligence rendition of the hand that just unfolded:

…..

Ok, before we move on let’s take a look at my aces getting cracked by CircuitRingWinner’s kings. He was one of the first players to limp preflop. This really hid the strength of his hand, although it’s not out of the question for him to under rep his hand. But given how many other players limped before I raised, I’m a bit surprised he didn’t re-raise in order to try to isolate. I suppose you can make the case that he didn’t want to play for it all in case an ace hit on the flop. So again, his K-K is extremely under repped. On the flop I bet and he just called. Maybe he thought he was trapping me. Maybe he was worried I had aces (which I did). Once again, the full strength of his hand is still under repped. Then the K comes on the turn. Should I have slowed down? Obviously, K-K is a possibility. But so is A-K or K-Q. There are a lot more combinations of A-K and K-Q than there are combinations of K-K, especially when a K hits on the turn. Plus, at no time did I feel he played his hand like the K-K that he had. A-K or K-Q seem way more likely to me. Should I have gone all-in? I think I should have. I mean, let’s say we both check the turn, a harmless river card hits, and he puts me all-in. Am I really folding A-A in that spot? I don’t see how I could fold. I think I needed to go with it, and if he has K-K (he did) then so be it.

I am curious what 2+2 thinks about the way I played this hand. Please provide feedback. Especially TJ and BigWhale, although I am interested in what anyone has to say. And don’t hold back or sugar coat what you think. If I screwed up in your opinion, I’d like to know.

WSOP Circuit, Hammond, Indiana, The Closer (Part 4)
I’m out, I’m back in, right back to where I started, smoke 'em if you got 'em

Level 6
400/800/800

The guy in the NFL hat makes quads and knocks out the guy with the big back pillow and twitchy hands who has a straight. NFL ran really well. In one hand there was a four-way all-in in which multiple players lost their minds (i.e. one player getting all-in with A-10 suited). CircuitRingWinner flopped a set of queens and NFL was drawing almost completely dead. Then a turn diamond and a river diamond put four diamonds on the board, and somehow NFL’s 7 of diamonds made the best flush to win almost all of the chips (I believe CircuitRingWinner and someone else had him covered, so some of the chips went to the holder of the set of queens).

While NFL is stacking a tsunami of chips, I am looking for any excuse to get my pittance of chips into the middle before I blind out. When I am in the big blind and small blind I look down at 5-2 and 3-2 respectively and fold to bets. I am down to 4,400 chips, and I really need to get it in this orbit.

When I am in the cutoff, it folds to me. I have K-8 suited, I go all-in, and everyone folds. I have 6,400 chips.

When I am in the big blind there are three limpers. I have A-4 suited. There’s what looks like dead money in the middle and no one has shown any real strength, so I go all-in. I get called by UTG who was trapping with A-K. I can’t find a 4, and I’m out of chips.

I’m out of chips, but I’m not out of the tournament. There is unlimited re-entry. I have one more bullet budgeted. A new starting stack of 30,000 will still give me playability given where the blinds are.

I go to the registration desk and re-enter. That gets me assigned to a table number back in the tournament room that does not exist. I ask the floor about this and he points me to an empty table where there is a staff member sitting. She will assign me to a new table. She asks me how I am doing. I refrain from sarcastically saying, “Well, I’m at the re-entry table, so not so freaking great.” That would be rude, so I keep it to myself. Instead, I say, “Hopefully my new table will treat me better than the table I just left.” She has a look of concern, and asks me what table I was at. She does not say it, but I suspect she will make sure I get a new table if I ask. I say, “I just had my aces cracked. Nothing for you to be concerned about. Any table is fine.”

Unintentionally, she assigns me to the table I just came from. Let’s try this one more time.

When I get to the table, I see that everyone in the tournament is on break. I walk outside the non-smoking tournament area, into the non-smoking registration area, and then into the general hallway where people are smoking cigarettes like fiends. The smell of smoke almost knocks me over. I hate the smell of cigarette smoke. I walk as far away from it as I can get.

WSOP Circuit, Hammond, Indiana, The Closer (Part 5)
I make a dangerous all-in bet and survive … then I get cautious telling myself “don’t go broke with A-Q” … but then I get aggressive later with A-Q

Level 7
Re-entry stack 30,000 chips
500/1,000/1,000

As the break comes to a close, I seat myself at my table, look up and I see Michigan football highlights. The huge TV screen on the stage is showing Michigan head coach Sherrone Moore at his weekly press conference. I immediately stop watching. I need to focus on poker right now and not on my beloved Michigan football team.

CircuitRingWinner gets back to the table, sees me and says with enthusiasm, “You’re back!” With our aces versus kings battle still fresh in my mind, I say, “They said you aren’t done terrorizing me.”

Pretty quickly, I am dealt A-J suited (clubs). UTG opens for 2,000. I am UTG+1, and it’s no time to be timid. I raise to 6,000. One other player and UTG both call. The flop is A-J-4 which is great (top two pairs for me), but all three cards are hearts (maybe not so great for me). UTG bets. Embracing variance (or maybe just feeling reckless on a second bullet in a go big or go home approach) I go all-in. The still-to-act player and UTG both fold. I have 52,500 chips.

Soon thereafter, CircuitRingWinner opens to 2,000. I look down at A-Q. I tell myself, “Don’t go broke with A-Q.” I just call. A new player to the table who is older than me pops it to 7,000. CircuitRingWinner calls. I fold. It’s a tight, nitty fold. Maybe it’s a bad fold. But my gut said I was beat. It would turn out that Old Guy said he had A-K, although he did not win the hand when he whiffed the flop, a betting war broke out and he eventually folded.

The blinds eat away at me during a couple of orbits in which my hands are rock bottom of unplayable and can’t call bets.

Then I am dealt A-Q suited, I bet 3,000 and OldGuy calls. The flop is 10-7-2. He checks, I bet with nothing more than ace-high ambition and he folds.

End of level 7: 48,500 chips.

WSOP Circuit, Hammond, Indiana, The Closer (Part 6)
Nothing to see here … fold, fold, fold, fold, fold … with one exception

Level 8
600/1,200/1,200

I have Q-7 in the big blind. It folds to the small blind who limps. I bet 4,000, and he folds.

No other playable hands this level.

End of level 8: 49,100 chips.

…………..

Level 9
1,000/1,500/1,500

I don’t get dealt a single playable hand.

The only thing memorable from this level is CircuitRingWinner says that when he won his Circuit ring a week ago he was down in chips by a 4-to-1 margin head’s up before he came back to win.

End of level 9: 41,600 chips

WSOP Circuit, Hammond, Indiana, The Closer (Part 7)
I get out of line with A-8 and it works … I’m UTG and I stun my opponent with the cards I turn over at showdown

Level 10
1,000/2,000/2,000

I finally find a playable hand, and it was marginal but effective. There were three limpers before it was my turn to act. I look down at A-8, which isn’t exactly a premium hand. Still, I haven’t played a hand in quite some time, so I am counting on my opponents being aware of this and giving me credit for much more than A-8. I bet 10,000 and everyone folds. I have 45,600 chips.

I am dealt 6-6. This is hardly a premium hand, but I have been dealt so few premiums that I decide I will play this for the moment as though it is a monster. I open for 6,000 from early position. Only NFL, who has a monstrous chip stack and may very well be the tournament chip leader, calls my bet. This could be tricky since NFL is very sticky. I flop a set. Easy game. There is no way NFL will believe I 3x opened from early position with 6-6. NFL is not a believer, and I get three streets of value from him. When I turn over my set of sixes both NFL and CircuitRingWinner (who was not in the hand but they are seated near each other) are verbally and facially stunned. “I didn’t see that coming at all,” says NFL. I have 75,600 chips.

End of level 10: 70,600 chips

Your raise to 4000 seems to be pot sized (1500+2400=3900), so that seems reasonable pre. Although one can say in hindsight that since four (!) players called, then you could easily have made it 6000. But unless you had an insane read in the moment about these guys being massive calling stations, then I like your PF-sizing.

On the flop there is already 22k or something in the middle I assume, and you have around 29k (?) left in your stack. On a harmless 9-6-3 rainbow it will be very easy to get the chips in. I think you can bet fairly small here, maybe around 6-7k to set up a turn-jam.

I assume you bet a bit more than above, but regardless there is absolutely no way you could have gotten away from this one, and you did nothing wrong. The guy hit a two-outer, otherwise you would have had a huge stack. It happens.

'CircuitRingWinner' played his hand atrociously bad, and just proves that you don't need to be a technically good player to win sometimes. The idea of limp-reraising is extremely stupid in the first place, but the fact that he just limp-called is even more puzzling. But from his talk it sounds he was genuinely scared you had Aces, which is the reality that you as an OMC-looking person have to live with, I guess.

(I also have a fairly tight image here in Malta among the regulars, which can make it a bit hard to get paid sometimes. Sucks, but I rather have people think I am tight and predictable, when in fact I am not 😀 )

When I'm dealt Aces in a spot like this, there's a couple things that I want to happen: 1) I WANT to thin the field; and 2) I WANT to play for stacks on most boards given stack depth. In order to thin the field to optimally one, or maybe two, callers, we need to choose a raise size that will accomplish this. If our standard first-in open size has been 3x (which I'm judging from prior hands described), then I would choose to raise to 5400 [3x600 (standard open) + 5x600 (1BB for each limper) + 600 (1BB more since we'll be playing OOP post-flop)]. I might go a little higher even, if the table in general has been call-happy. Ideally, this would result in us and one or two other players going to a flop with about 13,200 (one caller) or 18,000 (two callers) in the pot, and us having 28,100 behind.

Regarding flop play, this flop favors field callers, as we will rarely have sets here, but they sometimes will. Still, as played, there's a pot of about 20,000 and we have 29,500 behind. Any reasonably sized bet is going to commit us to the hand, unless we think we can bet ~7-8K and fold to a jam, saving 21-22K. So, I'd either bet small to eke out a little more value before jamming turn, or just go ahead and jam here.

Bottom line, though. This hand was going to result in how it resulted no matter how we played it. You didn't play it poorly, even if others would have made slightly different raise sizes or flop actions. Agree with Whale that the KK CircuitRingWinner played his hand quite poorly, and got quite lucky with his two-outer with two cards to come.

With Whale and TopGon. It's a "whattaya gonna do?" hand. I probably shove post flop as well.

Against this many players I don't hate just showing the flop for a slight overbet, simply because one them will likely have something to call with.

The reason I didn't mention it in my post is because 'rrpoker' seems to get a bit of an OMC-image every time he sits down at the table. So if he goes and overbet-jams the 9-6-3 flop I think everyone will just put him on Aces and some 9x might even find a fold. Which we obviously don't want.

I think you could size up a little bigger pre, but 4k over the limpers is pretty big.

I think on the flop you could consider just shoving, hoping to get called by 9x or worse overpairs, which is what floated you.

I don’t think it’s a mistake to shove the K turn, even though that’s what put you behind and in bad shape. When a committing amount goes in before that, you can’t really fold at any point because of the odds. If it’s EVER a sticky AK, or a hand like JJ, you can’t get away from it.

Thanks everyone for the AA versus KK input.

WSOP Circuit, Hammond, Indiana, The Closer (Part 8)
Conversations while on break … 54 players remain, 27 will get paid

Level 11
1,500/2,500/2,500

No playable hands. Nothing even came close.

End of level 11: 64,100 chips.

We go on break. During the break, CircuitRingWinner and I end up talking for a bit about the Circuit event he won a week ago. He says that when he got to the final table he was sixth in chips. He said a player near him was hyper aggressive, and he just had to fold, fold, fold for quite some time. I said, “Sometimes you are just handcuffed.” CircuitRingWinner likes this and says, “That’s exactly what I was. Handcuffed.”

Still on break, several of us are talking and the discussion is about the food choices here at the Horseshoe in Hammond (consensus is not complimentary) compared to the food options at Grand Victoria Casino in Elgin, Illinois. I say, “Not exactly spending your time in the most elegant cities in America.” We all get a big laugh at this.

………..

Level 12
1,500/3,000/3,000

A couple of players limp ahead of me, and I look down at A-K. I raise to 13,000 and everyone folds.

It is announced that the re-entry period has ended, there were 176 entrants, there are 54 players remaining, and 27 players will get paid.

End of level 12: 61,000 chips.

WSOP Circuit, Hammond, Indiana, The Closer (Part 9)
I boldly (foolishly?) bluff all-in with ace high … I get called by an opponent with a vulnerable hand … any ace, king or jack on the river will give me the best hand

Level 13
2,000/4,000/4,000

The 20-minute levels are really putting pressure on chip stacks. Especially my chip stack. I only have 15 big blinds. It’s too soon to panic, but I need to make something happen somewhat soon.

I am dealt A-K in the small blind. It folds to me, and I make it 12,000. The big blind calls with Q-8. The flop is Q-2-2. As the pre flop aggressor, I feel I can lead out with a bet. The big blind calls. I’m not happy to be called. Do I need to give up on the hand? The turn is a 10. This adds equity to my hand. Not only will an ace or a king probably put me into the lead, but now a jack will give me a straight. I have 10 outs. I have almost a 23% chance to hit one of these outs on the river. If I go all-in, I figure villain folds at least 27% of the time, which takes me to 50%. I suspect villain folds more than 27% of the time, so in my mind this makes going all-in +ev. I don’t know if this thinking is sound, but that is what I was thinking when I chose to go all-in. I really thought I could push him off his hand given how passively he played the hand. He did not cooperate, and he called. I need an ace, king or jack to survive. The river is …

WSOP Circuit, Hammond, Indiana, The Closer (Part 10)
The moment of truth …

I need an ace, king or jack to survive. The river is … a blank, and I’m out.

So, let’s analyze whether my all-in should have worked or not. Villain with Q-8 has top pair, poor kicker on a Q-2-2-10 board. The aggressive way I have played the hand, A-A, K-K, A-Q, K-Q, Q-J are all possibilities that have him beat. Q-Q has him beat, but that is highly unlikely given there is a Q on the board and in villain’s hand. Really, the only hand I play this way from start to finish that is a bluff is A-K (which of course is what I had, but he couldn’t be real confident that was the case). I suppose after the turn K-J or J-9 might go all-in, but I would not have played those cards pre and post flop the way I did. Furthermore, I had not shown down any bluffs since villain joined the table, and in fact I had not played many hands since he joined the table. Admittedly, there are a lot of combinations of A-K. Villain made the right call, so good for him, but I am kind of surprised that he was able to hang on like a dog with a bone.

Now let’s ask the question, did I need to bluff it all off with ace high? Part of my rationale was I only had 15 big blinds to start the hand. Plus, blinds go up every 20 minutes since the levels are so short. The money bubble was not especially close (27 people will cash, I think there were about 50 players remaining). To make the money (and more importantly, to make a deep run) at some point you either need to manufacture chips or make a big hand. Going all-in was my attempt to manufacture chips. The fact that any ace, king or jack on the river would give me the winning hand was my chance to make a big hand. I can’t expect/wait to get a rush of A-A, K-K or Q-Q in short order. Lord knows I haven’t been getting premiums like that in this tournament. Sometimes you need to embrace variance. Sometimes you need to win a hand through blunt force trauma aggression. The question is, is this what I was doing (i.e. if you don’t ever get caught bluffing then you are not bluffing enough), or did I just punt off my stack?

The preflop raise is obviously standard. I think the continuation bet after the flop is also fine. But should I have gone all-in after the turn?

I would appreciate it if LVL members could tell me what you think. Again, feel free to be blunt. I’m not looking for a pat on the back, and a there-there rppoker, what else could you do? I am genuinely interested in what people honestly think. Is it progress that I was willing to run a big, bold bluff in this spot? Or was it a punt?

What a cold and un-inviting place to play that arena looks. Do they always hold the tournaments there?

I think the question in a vacuum is, does semi-bluffing all in move him off a weak queen often enough?

Apparently, vs this exact opponent, in this exact spot, the answer was no.

You did have outs, so it wasn’t a hopeless, airball of an empty-the-clip bluff.

Ideally, while we spend most of our time folding, we could identify these tendencies ahead of time, before this moment, and try to find ourselves in a spot where he WILL call off his stack with top pair, no kicker. And we want him to.

First time I've played there, so I don't know. But I agree that there was nothing appealing about the setup.

Weird spot SB vs BB and only having 15 bb effective. You could shove pre, but with such a strong hand as AK I want some value from it. If the player in BB is passive, I am raising 3.5x or something. If the player in BB is pretty active, I am limping and hoping he jams.

I don't hate the way you played it; it's much better to be aggressive with outs rather than being too passive. My only concern is - what is he calling with on the flop? On Q-2-2 he shouldn't have much 2x (even from BB here), and most of his pocket pairs (at least 66+) he would probably just jam pre. But maybe I am giving the opponent too much credit.

Either way, unless he peeled once with like 44 or something, I think he just have a Queen way too often here and you are unlikely to get him to fold. At least against most player profiles.

Wouldn't lose sleep over the hand, but there's a decent case for just jamming AK on 15BB, as you may get calls from Ax and Kx with a chance to win the maximum. Many of those hands will be tempted to call off pre without hitting the flop, whereas most will give up post if they miss. To extract the maximum post-flop may require very specific scenarios like being against KT on Kxx or Ax on Axxx. In other words, I think there's an argument that you win the most chips by going for max value immediately instead of hoping to catch a flop that improves both hands. You are happy to win the blinds and antes if they fold two random cards. In this case we know Q8 would've folded and you would've survived to play another hand.

On a 10-15BB stack, I like a polarized min-bet opening range that includes monsters like AA/KK and more speculative hands like QJs and JTs. The min-raise on a shoving stack looks very strong, which dissuades 3-betting and allows you to see flops with flop-dependent hands. It creates a bet-fold opportunity when you face a 3-bet vs. the bottom of your opening range. AK is in the middle of that range, being perhaps too vulnerable to slow play while also being way too strong not to seek value. I think with hands like AK-AJ that dominate a calling range, we probably just jam. We are going to find some great spots against hands like AQ, KQ, and AT occasionally. We also probably just jam AA/KK sometimes to seek max value from the calling range, though these hands are reasonable slow-play candidates because they fear so few flops vs. a random opponent.

Random thoughts in the aftermath

Feeling a bit frustrated.

The ongoing saga of rppoker’s aces get cracked continued. Plus, the number of playable hands I had was miniscule.

I believe I was dealt a pair only four times. They were:

A-A (got cracked)
8-8 (nothing much happened)
6-6 (flopped a set, yay me)
2-2 (UTG, I folded)

Those were the only pairs I was dealt in 12 levels of play.

I believe I had A-K twice (won a small pot once; the other time I whiffed the flop, didn’t improve and eventually bluffed it off).

I think I had A-Q once. I’m too lazy to check for certain.

Not a lot to work with.

……….

Life got in the way, and I was only able to play in one tournament at this Circuit series.

The problem with a hit-and-run tournament approach is all my eggs were in one basket. One tournament and done. Unfulfilling. Get knocked out, there is no tomorrow.

At the WSOP when I am there for 12-13 days, there’s always a new tourney the next day. Hope reigns supreme.

Also, today’s circuit event was kind of a turbo structure with short 20-minute levels, which is not tailored to my strengths, which are patience and observation.

…………

I think I deserve some props for the endurance I displayed as an OMC. Ninety-minute drive at the crack of dawn to Hammond, Indiana, then played 12 levels of poker, then a two-and-a-half hour drive home (traffic was brutal getting through Chicago, with long stretches of no movement gridlock due to the construction project going on for the roads).

…..

It is a delicate balance I must find for myself. I need to be tough on myself if I want to get better. I need to call myself out when I get things wrong. And yet, I need to be forgiving of myself when I make mistakes due to the fact that I am choosing to challenge myself by competing against poker players who are massively more experienced than I am. It’s a tough tightrope walk to navigate.

…….

CircuitRingWinner cracked my aces calmly and respectfully. Compare that to the ridiculous, youngish woman with a ton of attitude who was all-in practically stone dead (she had a mere 6% equity with a river card to come) and hit her two-outer and started screaming, “That’s the kind of sh*t I like!!!!!” Then she paused briefly, and for good measure (apparently concerned that there might be one or two people in the room who didn’t hear her the first time) screamed again, “That’s the kind of sh*t I like!!!!!” Dear Poker Gods, unleash your fury on her. Credit due to her victim who kept his cool in the face of her verbal onslaught.

The best response to this ridiculous behavior would be if someone who wasn't in the hand quietly says to her "You played that hand magnificently" with tongue planted firmly in cheek.

I once heard someone say, “If you want to believe in justice, don’t play tournament poker.”