Dealer asks for less $ than the call amount - never seen this before - WWYD
1/2 Friday Night Local Cardroom - 4-5 tables running
V is a special kind. Has been with H for about 2 hours, is either drunk or on drugs + drinking. V is slowing down the game. Takes 20-30 seconds to decide to limp, to call a bet, raise etc. Every single time action is on him it takes atleast 30 seconds. However V is very friendly, in a good mood, and when he has a decent hand he will give it all away. V is already on his 3rd Max BI
V called a 50 dollar raise, and then called a Jam with 99 on a 853r board - V min 3 b and called a massive 4bet on a flop of ATs9s with Ajo. Essentially despite slowing down the game he is pleasant and a complete donk and the table is willing to put up with his nonsense. Eventually after a few more hours he gets DQd for 'slowing down the game too much'. Is that a normal thing? Obviously they were cutting him off but then to dq him and let him get into his car seems like an even worse decision.
During this session this hand/situation played out and wwyhd?
Game is 5 handed at the moment and V opens to 10 UTG with about 300 effective. H covers and calls with KTdd in the SB.
3 ways to a flop of KK3, H x, V bets pot, fold, H calls. KK39r Hx, V bets 75, H jams, V calls.
River is a 2. H shows his trip Kings, V sags his shoulders says you win and face up mucks 99. Table and myself realize he has the full house and has the winning hand. I push out a stack of 300 in 25 dollar chips for the dealer to do the all-in part, and D then says you owe 75 (she forgets? about the all-in part). I slide out the 75, no one says a word and the game continues.
Scumbag? Poor dealer? V didn't say anything its his fault too?
23 Replies
"Face up mucks" sounds like "tables"?
ETA: Ok, sorry. Reading comprehension is nil this morning.
Scumbag move, pay the man his $225.
Agree scummy move. Worse than an angle since a) violates rules and b) you knew it was incorrect. Any or everyone at the table should have spoken up.
Dealer (I believe) made a mistake but you OTOH chose to cheat and take advantage of his condition (drunk at least).
While V has a responsibility to protect himself which he failed at, you made a specific decision to take advantage of him in a weakened state.
The prologue you wrote has absolutely nothing to do with the issue. You need to pay the villain. It does explain why nobody spoke up though.
I'm currently sleep deprived, but I don't see the error/angle.
Stacks were 300 effective and after showdown, H stacked 300 for the D to push it to V.
What am I missing here?
The dealer basically said "no, that's too much, you only owe 75" because s/he forgot (?) about the all in and call.
OP knew it was wrong, but took back his 300 and just put out 75 instead, and V never noticed. Possibly others at the table noticed but kept quiet.
Thats something you keep to yourself if you choose to do it
The dealer basically said "no, that's too much, you only owe 75" because s/he forgot (?) about the all in and call.
OP knew it was wrong, but took back his 300 and just put out 75 instead, and V never noticed. Possibly others at the table noticed but kept quiet.
Got it. Somehow I interpreted the OP as "you owe 75 'more' (than the 300)".
Not only that, but we are meant to somehow interpret "push out $300 [then] slide out $75" as a total other than $375. This is the worst How many apples? problem ever.
No all in buttons at your room, I assume? This is a great example of why they are needed. In any case you could have, and probably should have, corrected the dealer. Definitely not justified regardless of villains behavior. Just pay villain the 300
I would have paid the full amount because I am not a scumbag, but that's just me.
I was fully willing to pay the all-in. I slid an amount of chips out to the dealer. I understand what I did was scummy, however the dealer and the other player did not notice or say anything.
If the V who was sitting directly to my left, held his cards out for everyone to see and then mucked the hand, should I have flipped his hand over, and tell him he had the winning hand? If a player goes all in and thinks he has a flush and misreads his hand, should I give him a rebate for making a mistake?
One time I went to the bank and cashed a 200 dollar check, and the teller gave me 220. Should I have given her the 20 back?
One time I went to a liquor store in a run down part of town and found a bottle of bourbon that normally sells for 200+, and was listed at $45. Went back a week later and it was listed at 225$, should I have given him the extra money that I saved?
I also used to work at small boutique wine store during the beginning of COVID. Sales were booming, boss/owner would drink on the job. One night I bought 120$ worth of product expecting the norma 20% discount. Boss told me he was giving me a bigger discount. Checked my bank account next day and he charged me $6.50. Should I have told him about his mistake and paid him back?
We agree on that, at least.
If the V who was sitting directly to my left, held his cards out for everyone to see and then mucked the hand, should I have flipped his hand over, and tell him he had the winning hand?
No to touching his cards.
Yes to telling him he had the winning hand, but only after the pot has been pushed.
If a player goes all in and thinks he has a flush and misreads his hand, should I give him a rebate for making a mistake?
No.
One time I went to the bank and cashed a 200 dollar check, and the teller gave me 220. Should I have given her the 20 back?
Yes.
One time I went to a liquor store in a run down part of town and found a bottle of bourbon that normally sells for 200+, and was listed at $45. Went back a week later and it was listed at 225$, should I have given him the extra money that I saved?
No.
I also used to work at small boutique wine store during the beginning of COVID. Sales were booming, boss/owner would drink on the job. One night I bought 120$ worth of product expecting the norma 20% discount. Boss told me he was giving me a bigger discount. Checked my bank account next day and he charged me $6.50. Should I have told him about his mistake and paid him back?
Was it a mistake? He gave you a bigger discount like he said he would.
I was fully willing to pay the all-in. I slid an amount of chips out to the dealer. I understand what I did was scummy, however the dealer and the other player did not notice or say anything. If the V who was sitting directly to my left, held his cards out for everyone to see and then mucked the hand, should I have flipped his hand over, and tell him he had the winning hand? I
Holy mental gymnastics, Batman.
If you drop your wallet on the street, am I allowed to pick it up and keep it? After all, who's fault is it that you dropped your wallet, huh?!?! You throwing out 18 what if scenarios (btw, that range from sorta similar to not even close to the same thing lol) just to defend your actions sort of tells us all that even you know what you did was wrong and you're jumping through hoops to defend yourself. People who do the right thing don't feel compelled to do that, because they know they did the right thing.
I believe the saying is something like, "It's what you do when no one is looking that defines your character."
Well, you defined it while everyone was looking.
One time I went to the bank and cashed a 200 dollar check, and the teller gave me 220. Should I have given her the 20 back?
Is this a serious question? Of course you give it back. Anybody with even one shred of character gives it back. Honestly, this should land you in jail.
If she gave you $180 I guarantee you would have spoken up.
At the end of the day, all of us have to look in the mirror and live with our actions. It’s a lot easier to do when we always try to do the right thing.
Unethical at worst, wouldn't call you a scumbag.
You literally stole $225 from him. You knew what he won. You knew you owed it. If dealer said you owed $500 would you pay because that is what dealer said.
Sorry but it was a scummy move. It trying this hard to justify your actions says even more about you. What it says about you is worse than scummy.
Would you take chips from his stack and put them in your pocket if you knew you wouldn’t get caught? That’s pretty much what you did.
No all in buttons at your room, I assume? This is a great example of why they are needed. In any case you could have, and probably should have, corrected the dealer. Definitely not justified regardless of villains behavior. Just pay villain the 300
No, it's a great example of why people who make a bet should actually have to put their chips in the pot.
No, it's a great example of why people who make a bet should actually have to put their chips in the pot.
Oh absolutely, but an all in button in front of OP would have prevented the whole situation from happening. Unless, of course, the dealer is not doing his/her job properly. Yes OP is to blame here primarily. He could have and should have corrected the dealer on what was owed. But the dealer isn’t exactly blameless either. At least with an all in button it is less likely that the dealer would have messed this up.
I think you should have paid him, the only cromulent point being would you have won 300 if you win the hand? Or was there actually something wrong with action that it could be ruled not an all in.
1/2 Friday Night Local Cardroom - 4-5 tables runningV is a special kind. Has been with H for about 2 hours, is either drunk or on drugs + drinking. V is slowing down the game. Takes 20-30 seconds to decide to limp, to call a bet, raise etc. Every single time action is on him it takes atleast 30 seconds. However V is very friendly, in a good mood, and when he has a decent hand h
You have described why from the pov of the table they put up with it but from pov of dealer V is costing them money. My guess would be an upset dealer trying to hurt financially a player that is hurting them financially.
