1/2: $2k pot with combo draw

Yes, easy shove on flop.

i mean how can nit reg have a good hand otf lol. he is there to make a hand vs the hwale and flats small bet on wettest board ever w 3 behind? am more concerned he have nfd and gets it in than him having a good made hand. if i somehow flatted flop id jam this turn bc idk what the point of flatting is. i dont really see how he flats a good hand on the turn either facing half pot with a 2.5x raise behind lol. its like you think he is trying to trap everyone when id imagine his strategy is if he has a good hand to gii / protect his hand since like half the deck absolutely kills whatever he has and whale is interested

Fold pre both times

Jam flop, jam turn

Nit’s river jam is a little interesting and I almost want to call off

Feels like the fact that you’re playing 5/10 at a game with a 1/2 plaque has scrambled your brain and made you lose sight of your fundamentals. (Which, to be clear, is understandable and human.)

This just feels like an easy raise pre, and if you end up being re-re-raised off your hand, so be it. I don’t think limp/calling 1/10th of your stack 5 way with this hand is a very good idea.

If you’d jam flop HU then I’d definitely jam flop once the bumhunter flats. Ain’t no way they’re nutted taking this line against a fish.

Just gotta get stacks in OTT.

Oh u started with 775

Yes call river as played lol

This is bad. You are the virtual BTN, but this "I have pot odds, so I call" is a huge leak I see from 1-2 players.

Would prefer shoving vs. over-over-over calling. Probably just raise instead of limp the first time.

QJs doesn't play that great 5 ways ... as we see on the flop where H is now worried about dominating draws. Think about those possible problems before you put 38bb in (or, I guess only 7.5bb but you are playing off a 70bb stack then).

Fold the first time is better than this.

Would even hate the limp/call line less, if you had better reasoning than this.

Money has to go into on flop.

Turn is fold or shove, and I'm not folding with top pair.

River seems close when you only need to be good like 5% of the time.

Assuming you are telling the truth and whale places in $75-$100 EVERY hand at $775 you are roughly 11 times the effective BB at a table and are NEVER obligated to put in a BB or SB but pay under a 5% BB per round so it takes you 225 hands to put in one BB involuntarily. Even taking your HH that describes whale betting $50 and making that the new effective BB you get roughly 150 hands. You are a SS in a game that will not blind you off. Play like that is true.

actually like the as played jam preflop suggestion quite a bit

if guy is really making it 75-100 pre every hand i don't think we should really have a raising range pre when he's left to act. i guess if you wanted you could raise hands that dont to call 10x or w/e if he is the type to not 3bet but i think just fighting fire with fire and limp reraising liberally will be the best bet. if he calls and you get wrecked, im open to rebuying shorter being higher ev than deep (esp if you're going to play timidly)

Preflop, overlimp is much better than raising. Preflop is close between shoving, calling, and folding. I kind of like the call. Flop is terrible. As played, you need to call the river getting huge pot odds.

I assume you can't match the stack in this game?

Pre is an open 100% of the time. If you get 3bet, deal with it then.

Flop is a jam...the nit may slow play their nut flushes but may also raise since the whale will call with anything.

As mentioned earlier, you may be overthinking this spot?

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I may have exaggerated it. It’s more like $50-100 every two hands maybe. Folds pre one in five times. But you get the idea.

Do we really need to wait for the nuts in this setup while everyone else cleans him out? And what qualifies as the nuts vs this guy? Don’t we want to take every +EV jam against him?

Last night, he goes $100 blind UTG, folds all the way to me on his right and I shove for $700 eff with A6o. Isn’t that the nuts against him?

I feel the best strategy against him is to just sit on his right and play fold or limp/shove vs those outrageous opens with all the dead money in between. I’d probably have taken down this hand too by limp/shoving or gone HU vs his junk with $225 dead.

It’s $300 max.

Any reason why pre is an open vs limp/call or limp/shove in this kind of a setup? Why would we rather invite getting 3b and playing an even bigger pot?

Max buy is $300 so buying deeper isn’t an option.

Raising to $50 here probably lets us set the price and seize initiative since he usually doesn’t 3b so much, so I could get behind that. Atleast we don’t have to call $75 then, lol.

I would say it’s $50-100 every couple hands or so. When you say “play like that is true”, are you saying we need to wait for monsters to GII vs him? That may take forever and may certainly not be the best approach. I’d rather limp/jam any reasonable hand (55+, ATo+) vs this guy, especially if there’s dead money in between.

What does raising (to like $50-60) pre really accomplish in this setup? We will end up in the same spot postflop anyway, right? Whale will call, and that will start a calling train and we go 5 way to the flop.

Only advantage will be initiative where the flop may get checked through to us.

Sit on his right. Limp jam anything that beats an 80% range. QJ definitely qualifies.

Easy raise pre in a vacuum, but what’s the point of raising pre in this setup? We will either achieve the same result and go 5-way in a SRP. Or we get 3b and hate life even more.

Isn’t sticking to a 100% limp strat better in these games when sitting to his right?

You played too passive. Just jam flop since you’ve got way too much equity to call. Once you don’t, turn/river are kind of meh and you end up folding a hand that could’ve taken it down.

Okay, yeah so a standard 80/50 type. I would still have a range raise in front of them, and if they 3b then great, that'll likely isolate the two of you in a big pot. If it's cold 4b by the time it comes back around to us, just fold. Just because it's a far more likely outcome in a standard game doesn't mean it's so likely you need to take other clearly dominated lines.

So this is where it'd be helpful to consult push-or-fold charts. This is effectively a spot where you're 7bbs deep and it folds to you in the SB, in which case you should shove J2o+.

You would never in a million years get that advice here because we don't study that format, and every wildly incorrect answer you get in this sub is just going to pollute your brain.

You are correct that you get a lot of EV by pushing preflop equities very hard. You're not getting great odds playing bingo against them for 1/10th of your stack at a time. (And yes, this is one scenario where implied odds as measured by your stack divided by the pot is actually useful as a concept.)

These types of maniacs probably don't even play that incorrectly in these 2:1 SPR type postflop spots. Perhaps even more correctly than the bumhunters who are just x/fing anything worse than top pair or an 8-out draw.

If villain were literally a 100/100, then playing to their direct right gives you the effective preflop button every single hand.

But even against an 80/50, acting after them means you get information on whether this is one of the 50% of times they raise or one of the 20% of times they don't VPIP at all, so you have to weigh that against getting relative position on them and seeing how all the other players react to their action.

Not saying I agree or disagree that the seat to their right is the best seat, maybe just saying this isn't so much a spot where there's a "god" seat, so much as each seat has its tradeoff and will come with different strategic approaches.

I'm putting this in its own post both because it's a moot point now that I got clarity that villain isn't playing 100/100 and because I'm getting a little out of my comfort zone commenting on it.

So why am I writing it and why should you read it? Good point, I shouldn't have and you probably shouldn't. But for posterity (and compulsion) sake, here goes:

First of all, I probably worded what I said poorly: I don't actually mean you should settle on only playing AA. I was saying you could set the bar that high and still profit in this game as a way of demonstrating that you don't need to sit this game out just because optimal play. You can set the bar as far below the actual nuts as you want, but as the J2o recommendation for shoving 350 of your precious 1/2NL BBs demonstrates, you almost certainly want to set it waaaaaaay above 0EV.

I'm sure you could use statistical methods to actually solve for what your risk tolerance should be by taking the standard deviation of different strategies and solving for the risk of ruin in each of those cases, but I'm way out of my depth at that point.

There are also perhaps game theoretical constructs that answer this. You might want to look into solutions for the St Petersburg Paradox.

Or not, because again it's a moot point.

Or is it? I kinda kept myself up last night wondering if playing an 80/50 is truly such lower variance than playing a 100/100 or I just feel more comfortable with the array of strategic outcomes that are favorable agains the 80/50 player than I am figuring out if I should open limp A2o first-to-act just so I can jam if it happens to come back to us in a scenario where it's favorable to jam. Probably not, but these are the things I'd have to think about.

At that point, it's like playing in a PLO game because it's so juicy, when it's like I don't care how juicy it is, I don't know how to play the game.

To answer the key question, yes jam the flop. You are at SPR 2 on the flop. You have a very strong hand that wins more than its fair share and the pot is large relative to stacks.

I think preflop is actually more of an inflection point bc by calling you are getting into a situation where you will probably be putting stacks in postflop if you catch a piece. Top pair, some 2nd pair, pair+draw, combo draw, etc.

Just calling turn/folding river seems like a silly line and the whole "want to make my hand" logic smells like rockfish thinking. I like the limp/jam with AJo, that's more like it!

Fold pre both times (but I get it -- not horrible to want to see a flop). Oops, now jam the flop (what more could you hope for? Seriously). Oops, now jam the turn (it got even better!). Oops, now sigh-call the river.

You were priced in like Obama was priced into Afghanistan.