1/ 3 KJs triple barrel spot
Villian was an older man, 50+, seemed like a regular. He didn't play that many hands in the hours that we payed together.
Hero was vvery tight( badically a nit really). I was basically only calling MP raises from CO with 77+, KJs+, AQo, ATs+ and good suited connectors with one gap or none. He was looser than me, but not by much.
1/ 3 NL 8 handed
Lo Jack- Villian ( 450)
CO. Hero ( 750).
Hero dealt with K ♣ J♣
2 folds. LJ raises to 15, HJ folds. Hero calls 15
We were a little deep, about 150+ bbs
I'd been pretty tight and hadn't shown any bluffs while playing with him for a few hours. The call preflop seemed reasonable considering how deep we were
I suppose I could 3b hands like KJs but the Villian in this hand is probably only raising TT+, AQo+, AJs+ KQs+and doing a alot of limping with other playable hands. So I dunno about 3 betting hands like this especially at stronge range like that
Flop( 35) Q♦ T♣ 2♦
Villian checks, Hero bets 25 and Villian calls.
I suspect villian would be betting the nutty part of his range so maybe he just wants to see a showdown. I decided to bet because I was open ended and it seemed like a decent hand to semi bluff with.
Turn.( 135) 3♣
Villian checks, hero bets 50, Villian calls
I picked up some equity so this seemed like a good double barrel card. I'm not sure ablut the bet sizing. Should I be betting bigger here? Maybe something closer to 75?
River( 235) 5♥
Villian checks. Hero???
Total brick. Now it really feels like villians range is capped here. I have zero showdown value and the villian seems to begging me to just check back
I think I have to triple barrel here, but how much?
18 Replies
Pot turn jam every river except a king or jack.
I bet Turn like 100 here - put him to the sword
My alarm bells are ringing a little bit with the Turn call (but you did make it too small, I go 100), given he's only marginally looser than a nit.
What does he have here that beats you that he folds when he wouldn't fold on turn? A queen or over pair would almost certainly c-bet flop on a relatively wet board, so his range to call flop, call turn, here is something like JJ (which you block), AT (which you don't even think is in his range pre), AK (which you also block) - not sure much else. However does a "marginally looser than a nit" continue to call on the turn with these hands vs a nit????? We also have to consider slow played sets.
We usually hear from monsters by the turn, so I think I bet 140, and insta fold to a jam, but I don't think it's a clear no brainer triple barrel.
Apparently no one else is gonna be the nit, so I guess I have to:
I would not flat pre.
I suppose I could 3b hands like KJs but the Villian in this hand is probably only raising TT+, AQo+, AJs+ KQs+and doing a alot of limping with other playable hands. So I dunno about 3 betting hands like this especially at stronge range like that
Do they really only have 5% of all hands? Then just fold, I guess.
Postflop also makes no sense if the bottom of their range is 2PTK and hyper nutted draws.
Double post
I What does he have here that beats you that he folds when he wouldn't fold on turn? A queen or over pair would almost certainly c-bet flop on a relatively wet board, so his range to call flop, call turn, here is something like JJ (which you block), AT (which you don't even think is in his range pre), AK (which you also block) - not sure much else. However does a "marginally lo
I think he has JJ, but we block them like you mentioned .
Check calling sets on turn and river seems possible, but I think he also plays pretty straight forward.
What are my options on river other than betting? He 100% has showdown value. Im just not sure how much it he's folding
Apparently no one else is gonna be the nit, so I guess I have to:
I would not flat pre.
Do they really only have 5% of all hands? Then just fold, I guess.
Postflop also makes no sense if the bottom of their range is 2PTK and hyper nutted draws.
I don't hate folding pre, because Im getting dominated alot, but I think this hand is playable
why are we getting involved pf vs a nit?
turn bet sizing makes no sense if you are going to bluff put a real bet in. i think an old nit here has a set of queens a lot here though so id just check back. i dont mind betting flop small though to let him c/c with his set and get a cheap river.
[QUOTE=ugthemc;59116278]I think he has JJ, but we block them like you mentioned .
Check calling sets on turn and river seems possible, but I think he also plays pretty straight forward.
What are my options on river other than betting? He 100% has showdown value. Im just not sure how much it he's folding[/QUOTE]
Give up? You don't have much showdown value, but there's not much point pumping more into the pot if you don't think he's likely to fold.
JJ does seem like the most obvious. In a vacuum I give up, since typical low stakes randoms will often call you off or slow play sets, but as for whether this villain has a set or folds an underpair, and to what bet size, I don't know how we are more likely to know than you.
I don't hate folding pre, because Im getting dominated alot, but I think this hand is playable
It's playable in that it has competitive (though less than 50%) equity and good realization against a broad-base of ranges, so it can almost always defend a pot-sized- raise in any scenario where it's already put money in the pot.
It's playable in that it can hit some nutted hands by the river about 10% of the time (though it only flops them like 2% of the time), so if you're playing a whale with very deep stacks then it's a bingo candidate.
It's playable in that it blocks a fair amount of raise/call hands and has 40%+ equity against any range that's 10% or wider, so someone would have to be profoundly nitty for this to not be a 3bing candidate. (Or, in theory, I'd estimate they'd have to be UTG in an 11-handed game for us to lose money 3bing it.)
I don't think "playability" is a good reason to enter a pot cold for a flat facing a 170% pot raise from a range it's a greater than 2:1 dog against and a player who doesn't get stacks in light.
I mean, I guess I'll tip my hand and say I'm doubtful we can infer that someone has a 5% range just because they raised preflop based on a few hours of play. So I'd almost certainly just 3b pre.
3bet pre-flop, pot the semi-bluff on the flop. With a pot-sized bet, you gain info. If villain snap calls = option 1 / if villain tank calls maybe option 2. Probably most would agree if we get raised, we fold to aggression.
1. Nits play a lot of fit or fold, so you take it down often. If villain calls, you can probably check behind on the turn with a free river draw.
2. If you’re going to play the draw like the nuts, I would jam the turn and not wait until the river.
If I was there, I’m pretty sure I would know exactly what to do. Hard to go off a brief villain description. Decisions are all about the people in this game.
I suppose I could 3b hands like KJs but the Villian in this hand is probably only raising TT+, AQo+, AJs+ KQs+and doing a alot of limping with other playable hands. So I dunno about 3 betting hands like this especially at stronge range like that
Fold pre then. This range crushes us and we're easily dominated on every K or J high flop. I'd much prefer to overcall a hand like 65s against this range because at least when we hit, he doesn't. Not that I'm advocating for overcalling SCs.
I mean, I guess I'll tip my hand and say I'm doubtful we can infer that someone has a 5% range just because they raised preflop based on a few hours of play. So I'd almost certainly just 3b pre.
I guess I'll stop being coy here:
In scenarios where I have this hand against someone with a 5% range (say, I raise and they 3b very small, so I just peel for the pot odds), I just check it down and try to hit the nuts against what I hope is a slowplay.
Assuming you're being a little overzealous with how tight this "very tight but not OMC" guy is, I'd 3b pre against this size. If for whatever reason I flatted, I'd b/b/b.
Even against a relatively wider range, I would not B70 OTF as the preflop caller on QTxtt. It can't be too much of a mistake with this nutted of a draw but seems clearly ill-advised in general.
I also don't think the follow up sizes need to be huge against a fish, even if you'd obviously love to bomb the tits off this runout in theory. But again, bombing it can't be too big of a mistake with this hyper-ultra-nutted draw.
It's the kind of spot where this is the least interesting combo to ask about; show me how you play your other hands in your range and I'll tell you what your leaks are.
In game, personally, I bet the flop often but take my free card on the turn. If you are going to bet as a bluff, it should be larger.
I mean, I guess I'll tip my hand and say I'm doubtful we can infer that someone has a 5% range just because they raised preflop based on a few hours of play. So I'd almost certainly just 3b pre.
I guess I'll stop being coy here:In scenarios where I have this hand against someone with a 5% range (say, I raise and they 3b very small, so I just peel for the pot odds), I just check
And if it feels like I'm hyper-fixated on how tight villain's opening range is, bear in mind that if you take two players who call down to the river with the same range, and one started with a 10% range and the other started with a 5% range, the one with the 10% range folded twice as much.
It's the single biggest determining factor in whether they're going to overfold, more so than how capped they are or even how light they call down.
I think the default is 3b this pre, but given description call is better. If he is truly that tight you can make an argument for folding this out of the SB for example, but in position definitely a call. Would definitely size up turn and river - you're trying to get him to fold JJ/AT/etc. The problem with this river is all the draws missed - your draw missed, diamonds bricked, etc. I think it's still worth bluffing given the great turn card we got, but need to size aggressively.
I'm not going to hate too much on seeing a relatively cheap flop in position, but honestly I often just make a nitty fold here preflop against someone not playing too many hands. I'm guessing a 3bet should be considered against a wide opener.
I don't mind a flop stab when checked to although I probably go less.
The problem with continuing a bluffing line on the turn is that (a) he's check/called the flop HU (which often indicates showdown value), (b) no scare cards have come in and (c) all the draws have clearly still busted. If we're going to continue bluffing I'd make a painful large bet, but honestly I might just check back (while repping the diamond flush if it comes in and he checks).
Ditto thinking for the river. I would just give up.
GcluelessNLnoobG
Is the pot size correct on the turn? Shouldn't it be 85, not 135 (and then some amount of rake taken out of that)?
