1/2: $2k pot with combo draw
1/2, $300 max.. feature table in the room because the mega-millionaire whale is here tonight, playing more like a 5/10.
Hard to believe you didn’t stuff that flop. Should get AI and high five the dealer.
If they always think you have it, why didn’t you jam on the flop when you actually kind of did have it and there’s 67 effBBs in the pot?
Worried about higher flush draws? That’s why non-ace suited connectors & gappers play so poorly in raised SSNLHE pots.
I’m guessing W had T9 and BH had KTh.
Okay, yeah so a standard 80/50 type. I would still have a range raise in front of them, and if they 3b then great, that'll likely isolate the two of you in a big pot.Not saying I agree or disagree that the seat to their right is the best seat, maybe just saying this isn't so much a spot where there's a "god" seat, so much as each seat has its tradeoff and will come with differe
1) Are you then open raising a linear range vs them like you would at a standard table? Or is there any adjustment in that range?
2) I think sitting to their left handcuffs me significantly in a spot like this: V opens $75 in EP, I’m next to act with AQo and a $700 eff stack… wdyd? Flatting sucks, folding sucks, and iso 3b also kind of sucks with 7 others left to act. Same situation with mediocre hands like AJs, TT, or KQs. Put me on his right and I can play these hands close to perfect.
I literally saw a hand last week where he blind jams $300 UTG, UTG1 bumhunter rejams $1k (probably with AK, QQ, JJ) and runs into KK with a player behind him. So sitting on his right avoids this dilemma when deep right?
I think to combat the disadvantage for the 20% of times he doesn’t raise pre when we’re sitting on his right, we can simply open raise normal ($15) pre and build a pot even if he folds?
1) Are you then open raising a linear range vs them like you would at a standard table? Or is there any adjustment in that range?
It should probably depend on how much they're 3bing (is it as much as they're raising facing limps?), but honestly I personally just play a very standard game in front of them. You can make certain plays, like slowplaying premiums in front of them so a ton of action gets squeezed between the two of you before you drop the hammer, but I'm not completely changing my game.
2) I think sitting to their left handcuffs me significantly in a spot like this: V opens $75 in EP, I’m next to act with AQo and a $700 eff stack… wdyd? Flatting sucks, folding sucks, and iso 3b also kind of sucks with 7 others left to act. Same situation with mediocre hands like AJs, TT, or KQs. Put me on his right and I can play these hands close to perfect.
This goes back to the pushing preflop equities thing: I would 3b all these.
Again, I'm not arguing the seat to their direct right is or isn't the best seat. I'm just saying that the fact you don't know what they're going to do makes this distinct from if they were literally blind raising, in which case obviously the seat to their direct right just means you get the preflop button every hand.
Thanks for the input, all!
Results:
Whale had 87o.
Bumhunter had KThh.
If you're going to play QJs and you get that flop, you have to gii. That's literally why the **** you play that hand.
wtf is this travesty of a hand. First of all your previous action limp-rr aipf with AJo is atrocious. Like dont do this against anyone. Ever. On to QJ, who gives a **** about some 3bet happy reg, you're still opening this hand hoping to get it HU IP vs the whale, even if the whale 3bets some stupid amount. If CO wakes up with a hand it's whatever. Trying to 'trap' or whatever it is you're doing with QJ is just not gonna be productive. As played you're finally IP vs the whale, sweet. You have enough equity to get it in on the flop, but calling is fine too. The turn is just lol-allin, again what are you doing leaving yourself with $150 behind, there's just no point. You've got the nuts, everyone is committed, get it in and realize that equity. Instead you fold river getting 350:1 so have fun going back to shortstacking 5/10 with a $300 bullet.
IMO, preflop may be OK, but flop, turn, and river were badly misplayed. The big mistake is you needed to shove the flop.
The AJo limp/shove might have been good. There was a big pot to steal. Not sure this hand if as played preflop, fold, or limp/shove is best. It doesn't matter much whether you open or limp with these dynamics. Could also play tight and only limp/shove or bet/3-bet shove premium hands, folding AJo and QJs. You are only paying $3/round in blinds.
Everything is loose/passive low stakes style, plus maybe understandably scared by effectively playing high stakes. Maybe better not playing that game, even though it seems profitable with the whales. You need to be prepared to possibly lose several thousand playing it.
He's either a whale (super loose passive) or a maniac (super loose aggressive). He can't be both. As described, he sounds more like a maniac than a whale.
If we expect him to raise to $75 pre every hand, then we're effectively playing 10BB's effective, and I suppose we should just be folding everything that isn't a premium holding and jamming everything that is. Like, as if this were a tournament, we could limp jam all our big PP's and AK. There's not much reason to get involved with anything that isn't premium when there's only $3 in the pot to start the hand.
With that in mind, I'd probably just fold pre the first time, and definitely fold pre the second time. If we see the flop, it seems like an easy jam when we'll otherwise have less than a PSB left behind going to the turn.
The limp/call with QJs may be profitable, although you could play tighter. It needs to be followed up correctly, like making an obvious shove with a big draw against weak action.
To be results-oriented, if you shoved, you would have won the hand. Either everyone would have folded on the flop or the whale only would have called with a pair and you would have one at showdown. You let the pro stay in there without much and draw out.
The limp/call with QJs may be profitable, although you could play tighter. It needs to be followed up correctly, like making an obvious shove with a big draw against weak action. To be results-oriented, if you shoved, you would have won the hand. Either everyone would have folded on the flop or the whale only would have called with a pair and you would have one at showdown. You
Reg folds KThh on flop getting 1 million to 1 if whale calls?
Hard to say if the result would have been different but there is that general principle that aggression wins more pots by forcing opponents to fold equity they underestimate.
Like maybe the nit sees putting in another $550 as a bad play when the non-whale (op) comes to life and could easily have the NFD. Or maybe op shoves, then whale shoves and nit doesn't want to put in $1000 more.
Of course, being results oriented also ignores the possibility that the nit has a set or NFD on the flop. Or that they had JTs, JJ-TT, whatever...
As it is, the game (for us) is playing like a tournament with our 75bb stack, where we almost never limp/call a 7.5x iso. If we're not willing to iso and call the maniac 3B (or limp/RRAI), then we're better off folding the first time. I would rather play a HU 3BP IP with QJs v. maniac than in a bloated multi-way pot with a similar SPR. There's other benefits too if everybody calls like buying position and a potential free card.
The whole point in limping would be to increase stack depth/our implied odds, but we can't really do that due to the size of the blinds and the maniac player. The fact that we are hesitating to put the money in on one of the better flops for our hand shows that pre was kind of a money burn. Just not an ideal spot or game if we're rolled for 1/2 or 1/3.
I've found myself in similar games over the years. If it's capped, you want to be sitting with a good 10-20 buyins and be willing to fight fire with fire. The idea of playing like a tourney? Forget that. You have rebuys. Tourney 10bb shove range charts are for after the rebuy period is over.
The goal isn't to get a big hand to hold up the goal is to spin up a big enough stack that you're playing heads up against whale and everyone else is just noise. When the buy in is capped, it's easier.
Play loose, play aggressive, be willing to rebuy a lot. Because when you get that string of hands, taking money from the whale is easy.
Your concern isn't the whale, it's everyone else. You want to play the whale heads up. If CO is 3! "too much" (he should be 3! as much as you let him) rip it in his face. Raise your playable hands, let whale 3!, and if people are dumb enough to flat, raise again. You don't want to be multi-way. Yeah, QJs is an all-in hand here. It's a big favorite against whales range and everyone looks obsessed with seeing a cheap flop - don't let them. Let the nuts know that to play with the whale, they have to get through you. Play against them, punish their flats, don't let them see a multi way flop. Have the mentality of "this is my whale, and you can't have this action". The nits will do what they do: get nittier.
Push your equity until the nits do something to show they have a real hand and aren't just trying to play bingo on the flop.
Are you going to lose a lot? Yup. But the whale will keep putting money in bad, the nits will be playing 5% of hands and there will be maybe one player at the table you have to be careful against. Once you run up your stack, getting your money back will be easy. It isn't like these whales pack up and leave when there's money on the table. Accept the swings, embrace the volatility, and make sure the whale likes you. Drink with him, joke with him, show him bluffs, laugh at his bluffs. If he's having fun, he'll keep playing.
In this exact hand, if you raised and whale 3!, even if it's the same amount, the fact you raised might cause others to fold because it increases the odds of you 4!ing, which you should do frequently.
i think he folds kthh for sure if whale rejams and maybe if he just calls? seems sort of close when i eyeball it esp if hes a nit and its 4x max buyin. is different if he has nfd or additional equity
I think if hero jams flop that's the most likely place V folds KhTh ... but I'd put the chance of him folding at max 25%, esp. given the way the hand played out (where I assume he's pretty sure his KT is good on KQ985).
the message i quoted asked if villain would fold the flop with kthh getting a million to 1 lol
