Out of the top 6 winners at GGPoker 200NL 4 are the same bot
i made this post at reddit i will put here as well, if everyone that plays on gg can help and send an email to gg support complaining about bots it would help.
the bots are getting insane good at this point, they are now playing with many different kinds of bot profiles, there are 3 bot profiles that i saw more than one and are unique, and there are some bots that im not sure exactly their style but im 100% sure they are bots, these are the accounts currently playing that i know of :
type 1 : 13Stramina13 , 996Gambler , frukywka , LetMeLoveYou , Kharaa7 , KevalNA (most dangerous one, extremelly balanced in everything, and even play for leaderboards, very high volume)
type 2 : Serpanika (new bot that plays limping using opponent data and exploiting the pool accordingly)
type 3 : Oltarian (there where many of those before, after my report some got banned, but for some reason this account didnt get banned)
indefinite types : begMekot , TaraRaiser , Jeniamo , GalizianStyle , BaniiLaBaiatu , leatherbutt (unique styles but all have the "bot stuff").
how i know these accounts are bots?, i studied these bots for many years, they all have many things in common that i will not disclose here for obvious reasons but i will send to gg the ways to detect, but the bots with "same profile", have close to identical stats, but all of then have many things in common, and they dont play just on GG, they play on many different sites, ACR, ipoker, ignition etc..., all these bots have something in common, they exploit player pool tendencies, im not sure how exactly they are created, but, what they do is basically a mix of exploiting the player pool + some kind of GTO balance, lets say there is a board, or a sizing, or a sequence of plays that leads into the average player pool to fold too much, they will exploit that, but, they wont bet 100% of the time in an overfolded spot, they will use GTO and only bet with the hands that have the highest EV, like when you use A2-A5, 45-67 to 3bet bluff, these are one of the best hands to bluff 3bet, but, gto dont 3bet then 100% of the time, so, if player pool folds too much to 3bet, they would 3bet more with the best hands to 3bet in order to get the highest EV possible without going crazy doing it with anytwo, but ofc, they dont just do these kind of simple things, they do things way more complicated, like, doing something preflop, because at the turn or river, after they did that thing preflop, things will get in a way they can profit, for example : limping preflop or changing the sizes of open raises or 3bet, so, its something so complex that no human can beat no matter what basically, the previous bots had many weaknesses, but these new ones are insane balanced, very close to GTO levels, and always with the right hands.
My opinion of whats happening is, these bots are indetectable by things like : click patterns, timing etc..., they probably play just like a human in this way, and probably GG only uses this kind of method to detect then, but the GG staff must learn how to detect then in different ways, wich i already explained via email, but im 100% sure they didnt use it, so, here im again trying to get some awareness about this, i really like GG i think the site is the best right now, but, we are paying 12bb/100 rake at 100nl, its ok, you can charge more rake, but, the minimum they should do is hire people to make the site safe from bots, im 100% sure there is not a single person that wakes up and thinks "how can i detect more bots today?" at GG, i dont even work at GG, i dont have access to all the data they have, and i easily spoted 14 accounts, imagine how many there are, specially at rush n cash that i dont know because i dont play there, just from these 14 accounts, they are probably playing at least 1 million hands a month and crushing the games by at least 10bb/100 with rakeback, leaderboards etc... my guess is that there are making anywhere from 100-300k per month from reg tables, and probably even more at rush n cash.
Its so sick that a post get close to zero attention
Thats how dead global poker pools are
Are you aware of any bots that play 500 or 1k regtables? Im not good at noticing.
only the ones that plays 200, sometimes they play few tables of 500 as well, but i never played 500 so idk.
The rake is at 5% per hand. No Bot can exploit that house edge. You are delusional??
Its so sick that a post get close to zero attention
Thats how dead global poker pools are
I guess a lot of people are just tired of the scandals and scams over the years and have come to accept them as inevitable. Their goal now is just try not to lose too much those times they do play and hope for an occasional win. Yes, the situation sucks but people still will play because as Nick the Greek once said, "It's action ain't it".
I guess a lot of people are just tired of the scandals and scams over the years and have come to accept them as inevitable. Their goal now is just try not to lose too much those times they do play and hope for an occasional win. Yes, the situation sucks but people still will play because as Nick the Greek once said, "It's action ain't it".
yes, but i think if everyone here sends an email, maybe they will notice something is happening and maybe will change the way they prevent bots, i personally sent an email explaining how they can prevent new bots.
But the online regs tell us that cheating doesn’t happen and you’re all just delusional losing players.
GG doesn't care! Reported to them bots playing almost 24/7, got a nice email telling me that they will take care of that....nothing happened.
Cheating in online video games where there’s 0 financial incentive for 99.9% of the cheaters is a billion dollar industry. Anyone who says there aren’t cheaters in online poker is ******ed.
Sounds like bots using a mixture of solver outputs/strategies and MDA exploits which would be the logical evolution for bots for anyone with a brain
time to move to live $50 mtts where u might have a 20% roi winning $10 a mtt. time u buy a drink all ur profits gone. if u drive there ur losing money.
yeah, problem is, in brazil the avg salary is around 600 dollars, so, even at 2nl you can make this much haha, but if i could work at the US or other developed country i would never play mid stakes for a living, but im ready for this, i know that in the next few years the game will be pretty much solved and probably there will be humans using AI to give all the answers for the game.
yes, but i think if everyone here sends an email, maybe they will notice something is happening and maybe will change the way they prevent bots, i personally sent an email explaining how they can prevent new bots.
I usually don't reply to off-topic stuff, actually never did but i think i have useful things to say here.
Let's say you are right and they are bots for sure.
I think that is a wrong approach to send email and just complain. Because like you are not putting them on any risk, you are not giving any reason for them to do something about it.
From their perspective the EV of not doing anything about bots is very close to EV of doing something about bots.
What you/we can do is to change it by emailing them and telling them that we will not be playing there anymore. the emails(they should be a lot) should be written in unprofessional manner "i am playing against bot i saw on reddit it is bot, proven, i heard bots playing something called gto and mda, i am withdrawing all money and never playing again". Can also share on other social media about bots on gg, their brand name would be threatened, they wouldn't want to be a site where bots allowed. etc etc, can think of different ways.
If you just complain but still continue to play they have no incentive to allocate resources to have better bot detection. It needs to hurt their bottom line. I may be too pessimistic about GG but that is the reality think.
I usually don't reply to off-topic stuff, actually never did but i think i have useful things to say here.Let's say you are right and they are bots for sure.I think that is a wrong approach to send email and just complain. Because like you are not putting them on any risk, you are not giving any reason for them to do something about it. From their perspective the EV of not doin
Agree with this and will add that it is imperative the threat not to play is backed up with action.
This is an important topic, and the OP is obviously very-well versed. Could we get a moderator in here to delete all the useless troll content? Let's keep this thread clean and informative.
Preventing bots and cheating is easy. You ask regs to record a session of them playing on camera every so often, and if they are unable to play well themselves or not even a real person it's obvious. Concerning that GG don't seem to ever ask for this
I usually don't reply to off-topic stuff, actually never did but i think i have useful things to say here.Let's say you are right and they are bots for sure.I think that is a wrong approach to send email and just complain. Because like you are not putting them on any risk, you are not giving any reason for them to do something about it. From their perspective the EV of not doin
agree, but, the ones that should do this are recreationals, and they might do it without even sending email, im posting it here and at reddit to make people go ahead and complain, and gg will be scared of people doing what you said and might do something about it, my personal email was explaining exactly what gg can do to prevent bots, i actually know many ways that they can do that would make not profitable for the bot owners to create new accounts.
LOL at playing on GG poker anytime, anywhere.
At least play on Stars where they try to eliminate botting.
Better yet be safe and stop playing online altogether, unless it's a big MTT.
Play cash live if the rake isn't bad near you, otherwise find a home game.
I have seen botfarms uncovered before and it was mainly done by looking at their public profile and seeing that stats were so similar it had to be the same.
Their mining-sites profiles were postedso everyone could see for themselves that these players were in fact bots.
Why do you not want to show it for these suspected bots?
Especially since you do name them and say the have the same "profile"
I guess people with GG subscription on mining-sites can check for themselves if these profiles do indeed match in a way thats extraordinary. If someone wants to, please do
There are certain things I also dont get in relation to them being 100% bots which I hope you can clear up...
Are you saying them 3betting A2-A5, 45-67 fully in a high Ft3b population is a sign of then botting? Because I do the same and I think many players exploit population by deviating from a gto base strategy by increasing frequency of the non-exclusive hands. The way you describe these behaving as "what they do is basically a mix of exploiting the player pool + some kind of GTO balance" is likely true for all midstakes winning actual players as well.
How do you get to the conclusion that there are 3 "bot types" and there are undefined bots who all have unique styles but similar "bot stuff"? (which i love to see defined)
This doesnt really sound that 100%.
And regarding type 1 bots. How can 1 bot be the most dangerous one and be more balanced than others? Its the same type of bot and programmed the same right?
And these bots also play ignition, acr & ipoker I read
Do they have the nicknames there, and if not, how do you know its the same bot?
You have emailed GG about this but since the bots are also active on other sites, have you emailed them as well? And how did they reply?
I am sure botting goes on in poker and not try to deny that, but tbh this does sound a bit made up. Bot type & undefined bot type could very well be player type and undefined player type and I dont think just saying these are 100% bots is enough. But i will follow close.
Fwiw I did check out the SN profiles of these players:
Frukywka played 10k hands at 10PLO 2 years ago and these days plays both midstakes PLO & holdem both 6max and HU but not hasnt been online in 2 weeks
Nothing about this player profile seems botty and he played pretty much every small & mid stakes plo & holdem, from hu to FR, nothing like a bot would do.
And it certainly doesnt match anything with KevalNA (who only played 100&200 6m&hu holdem even though they are the same "bot type".
In fact between all of them there are a lot of differences, even if they are the same "bot type". I am not convinced, what is "bot stuff", what is the "same profile" and how did you reach your 100% sure?
Because from what I'd see I would be betting very strong on frukywka not being a bot.
I have seen botfarms uncovered before and it was mainly done by looking at their public profile and seeing that stats were so similar it had to be the same.Their mining-sites profiles were postedso everyone could see for themselves that these players were in fact bots.Why do you not want to show it for these suspected bots?Especially since you do name them and say the have the
it feels like you know about the bots and everything, you know how the bots works, but those new ones indeed are not like the old ones, they are getting close to perfect now, what they did was that they got most of the flaws they had before and got better, like u said, instead of getting fresh accounts, now they play different stuff and let the account there for a while to then start with the bot playing, also, since u have this info, you know how to do what i will say right now : get those players of type 1 stats and look how close they are, its 1-2% difference, their avg is super close, before indeed the bots had identical stats, but they started to change so people dont notice it so quickly, but try for yourself, if you play poker, get your own stats, and see if there are 5 other accounts with insane close stats, like 1-2% difference, there wont be a single one, much less 5 others.
yes i have sent gg and email, this time and many times before, i explained all my knowledge about the bots and how specifically i can detect then, and they got better, like i said, now instead of fresh accounts they play a little bit of other things to not get obvious, wich was one of the ways we could use as a red flag.
"how do i get to the conclusion there are 3 types" : basically its because i saw other close to identical ones, like oltarian had many other "oltarians" before, but they got banned, type 1 like i said all of those accounts are super close stats, and Serpanika has a billion reasons that are obvious that he is a bot, but i will not explain here because its a way for me to identify then right now.
so, i know you have the means to get all the information im saying, just go there and look then comeback here and say if im wrong.
"Are you saying them 3betting A2-A5, 45-67 fully in a high Ft3b population is a sign of then botting?"
also, i never said that, i was trying to explain for a person that doesnt know how a bot works, i even said right after explaining that the bot does something like that, but in a waaaaay more complex way, its like this exploit but with more complex things like doing something preflop to impact into certain boards at turn and river, literally just read what i said after that "but ofc, they dont just do these kind of simple things, they do things way more complicated, like, doing something preflop, because at the turn or river, after they did that thing preflop, things will get in a way they can profit, for example : limping preflop or changing the sizes of open raises or 3bet, so, its something so complex that no human can beat no matter what basically, the previous bots had many weaknesses, but these new ones are insane balanced, very close to GTO levels, and always with the right hands."
