Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Yeah, that makes sense. At the table I was guilty of entitlement syndrome but it is after all just one pair and it was my analysis too that x/r is an overplay. But I am thinking that leading instead with an overpair has merit there? It feels weak/passive to not make any kind of attempt at equity denial. But maybe we are just too far OOP to make a move?

I'm either/or between leading and check/evaluating. The more ABC face up non-bluffy non-overplayee everyone is and the more drawy the board the more I probably lean bet/fold, but otherwise I'm cool with just check/evaluating and seeing what develops. We'll often make mistakes either way, but thanks to the pot being small it isn't a session defining one when we do.

GcluelessLRRnoobG

The big difference is who is incentivized to call and their position.

In a traditional 2 blind game when you raise UTG the player who is incentivized to call is on the BB and still OOP from you.

In a BTN straddle game when you raise SB the player who is incentivized to call is on the BTN and IP to you.

You can see the same thing if everyone folds to the SB, GTO SB will limp and raise (mixes depend on stack sizes and rake, Eg. limps a lot with no rake).

I've heard, and tried, different things about what blinds/EP "should" do in BTN straddle games.

I wouldn't be shocked if, in LL raked BTN straddle GTO land, SB folds or raises and BB limps a bit and then EP never limp.
Then as rake goes down BB limps more and SB limps some, and maybe other positions limp too.

I think limping both the blinds and EP is easier to play though (much like your thoughts on EP and MP in a traditional game 😉.

Fair enough, but in a typical LLSNL game this makes no difference as to the actual result (i.e. where we're almost always going to be OOP in both cases, and usually to multiple players at that).

GcluelessLLSNLnoobG

i don't like 4! AQ because you're either getting a fold or absolutely toast against anything that calls or folds, because you're basically facing AK/KK/AA/QQ once you do so

i'd much rather do it with something like JTs

you're in position with an underrepped hand

as played i'm calling flop cbet - too early to bluff in position imo

This is a new argument to me — I am pleased to see that LRR theory has continued to develop in the few years since I’ve posted here regularly.

Talked this one over w/ a friend and we had different takes. Easy river fold? Easy river call? Something in between? Oh - or a good 'ole "fold pre?"

1/3 NL
Hero: 8d 6d on BTN ($335 effective)

Pre: Solid L/TAG RFI 15 UTG+1, soft spot calls MP, soft spot calls CO, Hero calls 8d 6d on BTN

Flop: 9h 8h 8s (55 in pot)
X, X, X, Hero bets 35, UTG+1 calls, rest fold
(bet sizing?)

Turn: 9h 8h 8s Th (125 in pot)
X, Hero X
(is a b/c or b/f better than X?)

River: 9h 8h 8s Th Ks (125 in pot)
Bet 75, Hero?

I’m happy to call river here. Awful runout but he can have worse for value with this sizing plus bluffs. It’s a good price and this is one of the best hands you’ll have in this line.

Oh yeah and fold pre.

I'm betting turn I think. As played, I think we have to call river and hope to see AA, AK, JJ, AT, J10

River looks like a fairly easy call to me.

But I'm not here because I folded pre.

Fold pre.

Flop size is huge, I assume you are trying to get thick value from MP/CO and expect UTG+1 to fold?

But now only UTG+1 calls, so you want a brick or a FH to hit.

Never betting any flush turn that isn't the 6h, unless V is much worse than described.

River is weird, mainly the size seems bad given the board. robots might call if you forced them to the river ... but it would be defending against V bluffing stuff that isn't likely. Your hand is trash unless V is bluffing (with JT?) or massively overvaluing AA (even AK would mean he is x/c AKo and not just AhKh/AsKs). And given flop action it's not like V can call with random stuff with MP/CO behind, unless he has great reads about what is (not) going to happen.

Would probably decide on how bad I think V is ... if I think he might punt bet worse for value, I guess I call. The size does kind of imply he's not thinking about wtf ranges look like much, but I can see people auto betting NFD or KK for this size much more than turning AsQs/AsJs/whatever into bluffs and using this size.

Also, I guess if I thought V would call flop a lot (for 70%+ pot) with MP/CO behind then I'd sigh call river because his range was so wide.

Also disagree about how high it is in your range on the river ... you have a bunch of flushes, some straights and at least 99/98/T8s if not other FHes given you have this hand. This should be the worst 8 you have. You shouldn't even have TT given the flop size, so you are looking at hands like AsTs/AsJs/As9s/QsTs/JsTs/Js9s/Ts9s as worse hands (and I doubt the 9x hands should bet flop this big).

I'm not going to hate too much on attempting to see a relatively cheap flop on the Button, but honestly I just fold due to RIO in an awkward ~semi-smallish SPR (where we can be forced to play for stacks postflop when we might not want to when we hit our "good" hands).

I'm fine with a flop bet when it is checked to us in position on a drawy baord.

Turn is one of the nut low cards (flush/straight/TT all get there) and it was possible we were even behind on the flop. About the only hands we're targeting is a sticky overpair + flush draw, but otherwise an easy check back for me so I don't get blown off my boat draw (i.e. I really dislike a bet/fold when drawing to a ~nuttish hand).

I can think of very few hands he's turning into a bluff here (even JT is usually happy to just showdown) and is he really value betting so thin on this runout with worse? I dunno, it's very possible I overfold but I'm definitely leaning that way.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Thanks for your thoughts, folks!

Fold pre!!! Thought the 2 soft spots at the table were worth playing this speculative hand with OTB, but prob just too weak of a hand.

Yeah, I couldn't think of many bluffs he could really have (AhQx?) since I agree he prob just tries to get to showdown w/ JT), but I did think he could value bet AK (or even KQ?) w/ a heart since my line looks a bit weak after checking back turn.

As far as flop bet sizing - I thought in retrospect I could go even bigger as an exploit since all the FDs are inelastic and the two soft spot calling stations would call almost any bet w/ a 9 and possibly even a low pocket pair for a street.

Regarding turn spot, I like this thought process GG, thanks.

Good point, I didn't even consider the flop configuration!

tough to say without knowing your image

seems fine to me, you have overpairs, 9x, draws to keep people in and you can lose to so i like the sizing but would even go a little higher because it will sometimes look like you're just stealing so i'm probably making it 50

turn seems like a good spot to check, basically the worst possible card for you other than Qh or 7h and at this point we're doing pot control with showdown value - we need to fold to all c/r and don't see much out there calling that's worse so i think this is a check all day

river i expect to lose quite often but as played would make the call

you lose to hearts, you lose to 76 which is probably happy to check/call, you lose QJ but that's pretty unlikely imo, so it's mostly hearts, thin value that you beat or bluffs so as played I'm happy to call 75 to win 200

and mostly this

Simple preflop spot

2-5-10-20 , late night game 7 handed, close to breaking

Im cutoff with As4s (1.3k) open to 50
Btn tight passive reg 3b to 175 (650$ total)
Bb loose passive fish flats (1k)
Straddle, loose passive fish flats (covers)
Dbl straddle folds

Folds to hero? Call,fold or jam?

Yes.

CO vs. BTN is 50/50 4bet or call (as is A5s).

The extra blinds mean we should all be tighter everywhere, and the read also implies that as does the loose straddle calling.

HJ vs. CO is more like 25% 4bet and 75% fold but A5s is now 75% 4bet and 25% call.

So I think it's reasonable to do anything at some frequency ... very helpful, I know 😉

Tight passive button starts around 30 straddles effective and 3-bets over a quarter of his stack? Feels like a fold to me.

Was gonna say the same thing,fold was my first gut feeling on this spot. Tight passive 3 bettor is likely on a strong pretty nutted range here,and i am not very pleased looking to put more money into this range with A4.

But these days my focus is more on PLO,so what do i know.

i think you have an easy call and try to hit gin, fish having far bigger stacks than the guy we're actually worried about is very helpful as well - giving us an out to lose the main pot but win the side pots

we're definitely getting it in bad here but 125 more to see a flop of a 700+ pot is very tempting to try to hit gin

i don't like 4! because we likely only get the fish to drop out

very happy with a fold though, nightmare scenario is flopping something like AJ7r and being forced to cry check/fold to aggression so the fold is probably best for peace of mind because you're going to be folding a lot of top pair on future boards

Currently watching 1/3 TCH LIVE Poker cash game streams on Youtube

What style would you use to beat these games?

Below are examples of loose passive play, correct?

https://youtu.be/JGG-UVVIz9E?t=2804
$1/$3 game and the action is on UTG+2 who raises pre to $20 with A5o. Gets called by T7o, 62s, J9o, QTo

https://youtu.be/JGG-UVVIz9E?t=3362
$1/$3 game, $8 straddle on button. Six players see a flop, no raise pre

Yeah i think we can mix calling and folding. In game i did end up folding.

You're offered 17.8% odds to get into a low SPR pot (1.6 with the biggest stack) when you're only 11% to flop even a high-equity draw. I don't think drawing for the flush has merit. A4s wants fold equity pre, and we don't have any against the BTN here.

Sizing question.

2/5/10 in open utg to 30 with AA. A bad villain in cut off calls and then button 3 bets to 145.

Button has 650 behind, I cover. He and I know each other well A he’s a decent winning reg amateur. On the nittier side of TAG and he would be 3 betting a linear range. He also respects me/my game, which is similar to his and he would respect my UTG range

My guess is that his range is JJ+, AK maybe AQss. Maybe he’s a little wider than this? But not much

I feel like I can…
- bet lol small…eg 310 so that he can’t fold at all
- bet 400 ish which would be normal size but then leaves 400 behind with 840 in the pot
- shove

Not sure I can flat oop?

I think 400 feels strongest and I should either just over min or shove?

wwyd?

Is there any game dynamics or context to consider?

If this spot is happenning like in a vacuum with no particular dynamic to exploit i would do what i would do with a hand like AK here. Would you typically shove or 4 bet smaller with AK?

If lets say 3 bettor is losing in the game and possibly boiling little bit i would just shove allin hoping he isnt disciplined enough to fold much.