Does rebuy dynamic change this decision?
$400 Local βBlinds: 600/1,200/1,200 (bba), middle of rebuy period.
UTG 40k (tight) New and unknown (to me)
Hero UTG1 70K: K♣s:Q♣s: (aggressive)
BB 102k (loose passive/splashy)
Preflop (pot ~3k): UTG rfi 3k, Hero calls, folds to bb - calls.
Flop (pot ~10.8k): Q♦7♦9♥
UTG bets 7k, I call, BB instantly all-in. UTG tanks and folds, Hero?
15 Replies
I’d be fine calling here and expect we’re roughly 50/50 against a typical opponent.
Flush draws to make up much of his range and we have many outs against a vulnerable 97 that may take the same line. Can even see certain opponents jamming worse Qx in a rebuy period. Sucks if he has a set but there are way more combos of the others.
Yeah I feel like this is pretty opponent dependent. Some people will shove a flush draw here and some will only have sets they're afraid of getting sucked out on. Not sure what to think here, he's loose passive which means he could have a wider range, but is a passive player ripping in a flush draw here against this kind of strength? I don't know.
I'm not sure what splashy means. Does it mean that he bets large sometimes as a bluff?
In all the time I have been playing only once has somebody c/r jammed with 50+ bb's on the flop with a set. It just seems like a double draw most of the time (like 9Xdd, AXdd, JTdd, T8dd, etc.). I doubt that its a straight draw with a backdoor flush draw.
But the problem here is that there are a bunch of two pair hands Villain can have. On the bright side we block some and because of the hesitation, UTG might also have had a Q (like AQ).
In the end because we are mostly flipping and its a rebuy period, I call. What I don't like about this spot is that Villain is passive. It may be that Villain is super obvious about having big hands. I'm guessing we found out...
You need a little over 40% equity to make the call. I agree that it's pretty opponent dependant and also that a big combo draw makes a lot of sense.
Do you think there's any chance that this particular player would ever do this with a worse queen?
@GreatWhiteFish ... I can see him having a worse Q ... QhJh QhTh etc... I don't think he's jamming a naked Queen (that came out wrong lol)
Id fold any queen, think it's value heavy vs two opps: any two pair is possible (Q7off, Q9off, 97off, ...), snap jam to make it look semibluffy, but showing much strength vs big sizing and overcall, and even stuff like JT diamonds, T8 diamonds, 68 diamonds, A9 diamonds, ... is ahead of us.
I would call if I had a more concrete read on opponent stacking off lightly with bad top pairs or something similar.
some effect of the reentry period will be there, but rather negligible in the grand scheme of things
As far as your own decisions go, the option of a rebuy should make zero difference. If calling is correct, it is correct with or without the rebuy. If folding is correct it is correct with or without the rebuy. A rebuy is just equivalent to a late registration. If you lose your current stack you have lost a buy in. This is true whether you choose to rebuy or quit after busting. Some players will play more aggressively during a rebuy period and you should be aware of that, but in theory the rebuy doesn’t change the EV of any decision.
if opponent was shoving 6 combos of sets and now, affected by the reentry period, went yolo with 50 combos of flushdraws (23 diamonds, ...) our most optimal strategic reply would change to calling him off.
he's likely shoving 21 combos of two pairs though, with sets 27 combos of value, and also combodraws that are ahead of us.
he might fastplay his 10 combos of nutflushdraws more often that have around 50% equity, but unlikely worse flushdraws.
most of field's strategy wont be affected by the reentry period.
is he shoving worse queens? -> call, otherwise fold
@GreatWhiteFish ... I can see him having a worse Q ... QhJh QhTh etc... I don't think he's jamming a naked Queen (that came out wrong lol)
Hahaha. If he's not jamming a naked queen, but caressing her like a gentleman, then I would likely fold.
In all seriousness, I play against fish meeting the villain's description who will jam here with stuff like Q8. They see that they have top pair against two opponents on a rather scary board. Their thought process probably doesn't go much beyond that to consider ranges and stack sizes. They're just scared of getting drawn out on and want to shut things down immediately. Never mind that they're pretty much always crushed when called. This scared "jamming for protection" attitude is especially prevalent during the rebuy period. Against this type KQ is practically a snap call.
It sounds like you're saying your opponent is not this type though? If they're not jamming worse queens then you're likely either slightly ahead against combo draws (actually a fair number of combo draws have an equity advantage) or way behind against value hands. In that case you likely don't have the >40% equity you need.
As far as your own decisions go, the option of a rebuy should make zero difference. If calling is correct, it is correct with or without the rebuy. If folding is correct it is correct with or without the rebuy. A rebuy is just equivalent to a late registration. If you lose your current stack you have lost a buy in. This is true whether you choose to rebuy or quit after busting.
if opponent was shoving 6 combos of sets and now, affected by the reentry period, went yolo with 50 combos of flushdraws (23 diamonds, ...) our most optimal strategic reply would change to calling him off.he's likely shoving 21 combos of two pairs though, with sets 27 combos of value, and also combodraws that are ahead of us.he might fastplay his 10 combos of nutflushdraws more
At Foxwoods (FW) where I used to play in a ton of tournaments pre-Covid they changed their buy in rules about 14 years ago. Previously you weren't allowed to buy back in. Then they allowed rebuys. Once they started allowing rebuys there was a large shift in strategy from some of the regulars. Bluffs were now made at a much higher frequency. The frequency for people calling polarized bets went up as well. A part of this is that for the higher priced weekend tournaments there was always a player pool for who can last the longest. So those guys tend to jam or call jams all the time.
This is why being in a rebuy period makes a big difference as to how I approach polarized bets. Recently in a $400 FW tournament I saw a guy with a huge stack (during the rebuy period) bet on each street and jam the river at about 3x pot. The other guy in the hand called with a middle pair and was knocked out by a set. But he was buying back in.
In the past couple of years (since I am back from Prague) I have been making a point of calling polarizing bets when I can buy back in. At Mohegan Sun last year I had AJ in the CO and called a preflop raise by a UTG middle aged woman. Flop was Jxx with a flush draw. She checked the flop and I bet about 2/3 pot and then she jammed for like 4x pot. I insta called and she was furious because she had AQ and didn't get why I would call. She had a point because I thought she probably had QQ+ a decent % of the time. But because we were in a rebuy period I wanted the chance to double up because aside from EV, having twice as many chips as other people allowed me to play more aggressively and differently post flop and I did go deep in that tournament.
I don't really know if the call here is +EV or not. My gut reaction was to fold because if we are not behind we are flipping at from 45% to 55% and in general I don't call in these spots when I can't buy back in. I doubt people are c/r jamming much if at all with hands like QJ/QT here. But because we can buy back in I believe that the semi-bluff frequency goes up. And I look at buying back in as being able to enter another tournament. Because I live far from casinos I don't get to play that many tournaments so I am glad to get a second chance.
Is anybody raising the flop here, with the BB left to act?
I'm much more likely to raise in this sort of spot when out of position to the player that bet. That's because the player that bet will often check back on the turn and get two free cards if we just call. When we're in position I prefer to call and let them barrel into us. Calling also helps protect our weaker flop calls/floats.
I'm much more likely to raise in this sort of spot when out of position to the player that bet. That's because the player that bet will often check back on the turn and get two free cards if we just call. When we're in position I prefer to call and let them barrel into us. Calling also helps protect our weaker flop calls/
That sounds reasonable. I come from a limit holdem background, when we would raise a lot to fold out the equity of the player that is yet to act. We price big blind in to call with all sorts of nonsense when we just call in this sort of spot.
Yeah, I'm not even saying my approach is necessarily "correct" or what a solver would do in this exact spot. In general though the solver does tend to check raise more OOP, both for "value" and as a "bluff, " although these categories aren't always clear cut with solver ranges.
Regarding your limit hold em observation: Yeah that makes sense in LH. BB can't over call nearly as much in NLH because a lot of the hands that would over call in limit will have significant reverse implied odds in NLH (although this is less true the shorter the effective stacks are).
Especially when deep-stacked hands like 2nd or 3rd pair (sometimes even weak top pairs) often have to fold immediately on the flop facing a bet and a call. I've noticed the hands that are able to over call in NLH tend to be hands with clean outs to improve. So like pair plus a straight draw, or at least a pair that has cleaner two pair and trip outs in a given spot. As usual there's an exception to every rule though.
