Rivered top pair, wasn't this the plan?

Rivered top pair, wasn't this the plan?

Feel like basically every decision here is pretty marginal, but curious what people think.

Main Villain is sorely lacking in a good read. He's been at the table for about an hour, sitting out of view from Hero behind the dealer and has been unremarkable playing few pots. Normally "I forgot about this guy" means tight-passive so that's my initial mark, but all I can really say is that he has not played too many hands and never gotten out of line or done anything memorable.

V2 is a capable-ish TAG who has recently taken to limping in to make up for not being dealt playable cards. Definitely somewhat tilted from this.

In general, the table has been playing reasonably competently except just a little bit too loose-passive in all respects.

V is UTG with about $300.
V2 is LJ with around $1,000.
Hero in HJ covers.

1/2 NL (currently 7-handed)

V straddles $4, LJ limps. Hero picks up Kc 9c and raises to $20. Folds back to V who calls, as does LJ.

Flop ($56): Jc Td 6s

X through.

Turn ($56): Jc Td 6s 3d

V leads for $25, LJ folds, Hero calls.

River ($106): Jc Td 6s 3d Kh

V bets $75, Hero...?

06 October 2025 at 04:16 PM
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17 Replies


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I would raise more pre. You're just try to steal. The rake is probably horrible.

Flop could go either way. I'd give these guys weaker ranges as 1 defended his straddle and the other limp called. So JT6 connects with them but not as much as in other scenarios.

A small bet could clear out a lot of crap like 44. A7s. Etc.

On that note you could raise the turn.

River is a pretty easy call. Many draws missed. He shouldn't have tt or jj or kk. Nice to have a 9. You've shown lots of weakness.


I would only consider purposely playing K9s- on the Button, and even then I usually just fold it, but I'm a giant nit waiting for AA/KK. Think we're too early for this hand, imo.

Prolly some argument for a cbet with a gutshot + over + backdoor flush to see what shakes out.

I'm guessing we're calling the weakish turn bet to mostly rep the backdoor flush? Ok, I can get behind this.

And I now fold the river against a guy not getting out-of-line. We called the turn with some evil intentions on a 3-card-flush / gutshot hail mary and otherwise to evaluate if we hit TP (so fine to bet if checked to but fold if bet into, imo). ETA: Also note our hand looks like AK, which ain't great when he bets into that.

GcluelessNLnoobG


LowJack always sound great, because it feelsl like you're late position, but you are not and in this case you essentially you have 7 more players to act including the straddle and the caller.

I fold pre.

Flop: I think 3 ways check is fine, though c-bet is not terrible.

On Turn: Villain is leading into 2, I suspect he has something. Call feels loose.

On River: Presumably the overcard was part of the reason for the Turn call and not just the gutshot, so it feels funny calling turn only to fold river, so I'm probably calling, not feeling great about it, but I think we probably have the odds.


you have a valuecatcher, V is going to have a lot of Jx, have to call for this sizing


Why are we calling the turn?


If the table is playing on the tighter side, LJ could just play flats with a typical raising range but that would depend on how everyone else is playing in straddle pots.

The idea would be keeping the pot small and being able to call 3 bets with decent holdings, instead of bloating the pot pre and playing out of position multi-way post.

Would not be surprised to see AJo on the river


Lots of weird reads here, and some cancel out others.

I don't mind preflop, sometimes but wtf is loose passive guy doing straddling? Also what does it mean when he defends?

Flop is a weird spot where someone will have something often (but not always better), but checking means you often just lose (including vs. worse).

Turn you block Q9/98 or even weak value like T9 ... and your range has a lot of smaller pairs, overcards and maybe some overpairs. All overcards have a gutter, so this feels like one of the worst hands to call with.

River he sizes up, with only a single caller ... into a card that's super likely to hit a bunch of your range.

I understand "call turn so we have to call river" but if he shoved everyone would ignore that, right?

And the very natural bet for AJ, esp. from a passive player, would be 50ish ... so he's either trying to bluff you off something, or has one pair beat and going for bigger value.

I think you could do anything here ... fold, call or shove. Bluffing seems pretty weird with top pair, but I'm not sure it's good often enough and there's some value in not showing it. Also depends on if V can ever bet/fold KQ.

I guess I'd still lean call, then think about folding before shoving without reads ... but not obvious that's correct.


Since it got touched on in the replies, I'll just follow up with my thinking on the streets:

Pre is a little marginal, but note we're 7-handed in HJ so only 6 left to act and two folds needed to buy the button. I've been trying to shore up my preflop ranges and one persistent thing I see is that these suited combos are usually openable, especially to the exclusion of small pairs and sc that people like to play. I don't have solid charts for a 3-blind game but it's a pure open starting from UTG (8-handed) for GTOW 100bb deep. One the one hand, the bigger raises for live play and limpers should dictate a tighter range in theory; on the other, it seems likely we can play this in position and I am reasonably certain that LJ has a capped split range when limping in here. He's even made a comment about limping due to being card dead.

Flop, I don't love starting something here into two others on a board that connects with limp ranges when we don't have that much going on.

Turn definitely could be argued as a fold. We're getting 23.6% (3.24:1) direct odds to draw to what I see as seven outs so we need another 2.36x the bet in IO when hitting and honestly we're probably further from that than I made up in my head at the table (I think I rounded both in my favor, omitted the rake, and ended up with 4:1 to call, need 5:1 direct). We have some bluff chances on the bdfd completing, but if I dislike anything in hindsight it's calling the turn.

by gobbledygeek

And I now fold the river against a guy not getting out-of-line. We called the turn with some evil intentions on a 3-card-flush / gutshot hail mary and otherwise to evaluate if we hit TP (so fine to bet if checked to but fold if bet into, imo). ETA: Also note our hand looks like AK, which ain't great when he bets into that.

On the river, I tanked for a long time, but ultimately this was my decision. The plan was absolutely to win with a K on the river, but the 75-dollar bet is not only sizing up in pot terms but a really big absolute bet for a fish here, and it felt a little too strong for Jx. I was expecting $50 or even smaller and would have snap-called that size. Very much "I see this King hit your range and I just don't care".

So, sorry for the lack of reveal, but I folded.

by illiterat

Lots of weird reads here, and some cancel out others.

I don't mind preflop, sometimes but wtf is loose passive guy doing straddling?

The best I can observe, I think some tight-passive players sometimes end up straddling when they are card-dead in hopes that the straddle will see them a limped flop.


I think folding river is right unless you know he's capable of bluffing.

Pre- you're plenty deep and IP with the TAG, have to be careful post, but I don't mind it.

Flop: Don't hate mixing betting or checking. I'd be naturally inclined to check against two as I'd expect both players to check made hands a lot

Turn: I think calling is a mistake. Raise or fold. If you raise and V calls, he will check most rivers and we can jam as a bluff or bet targeting one pair of we hit. If V shows aggression after we raise, go away it's a monster. So I would probably just click the turn up to say $60, Jx will get really nervous but be priced in and we have enough SPR to be scary on the river.

AP, his line is really strong, SPR is low after his bet, and we don't have enough info to avoid running into walls so we can't raise now. Live to see another hand. You probably lost $35 less than I would have because he has 2p+ 99% of the time.


by Yamihere

So I would probably just click the turn up to say $60, Jx will get really nervous but be priced in and we have enough SPR to be scary on the river.

I don’t think this is a texture where we would want to raise small with value or bluffs.


by OmahaDonk

I don’t think this is a texture where we would want to raise small with value or bluffs.

Why not?


by Yamihere

Why not?

Equities run closer on dynamic boards and more hands can continue against bets or raises.


Preflop fine, flop check is okay multiway. Turn call good. River K is your best improvement, villain’s range is capped and can have plenty of weaker Kx or missed draws. Call looks standard.


by OmahaDonk

Equities run closer on dynamic boards and more hands can continue against bets or raises.

Good. We WANT him to continue. The goal of our turn bet isn't to blast V off his hand, our goal is to determine if we can blast him off his hand OTR.

If V has a draw he will call, and if misses, he will check fold river to anything.

If V has a draw and hits, he will likely lead out on the river.

If V has a monster, the board is dynamic he is going to ship the turn almost all the time. We just fold.

If V has moderate value (Jx) he will probably just call.

In short, by clicking turn we ensure V either blows us off our hand OTT or bets into us OTR if he hits a draw. If V checks river, he isn't a solver, he probably isn't balanced, he isn't protecting his check range. He has one pair at best.

Suppose H got lucky and hit the straight, can we jam for value? Probably not. Because Vs one pair hands probably fold. We probably bet small. So with our bluff, rip it. V is never calling.

If we fail to click back and just call, I think V is calling our ck/call/jam brick river line with so many missed draws. The click back turn is essential to set up a bluff.


by madrabbit

Since it got touched on in the replies, I'll just follow up with my thinking on the streets:Pre is a little marginal, but note we're 7-handed in HJ so only 6 left to act and two folds needed to buy the button. I've been trying to shore up my preflop ranges and one persistent thing I see is that these suited combos are usually openable, especially to the exclusion of small pair

There's a lot wrong here. Does GTO wizard know what your rake is?

Anyway, I reiterate you are stealing pre in a high rake game. Raise bigger. Your raise sizes don't need to be uniform, especially in weird spots like straddle, limp.

Checking flop. Not disastrous. Nor would folding turn in a vacuum.

But I think being aggro pre and timid fit or fold post is a bad recipe.

River fold is a big deviation. Do you have any better calling hands? You block lots of stuff. Maybe in your game they have it 100% here, but you are basically saying that you are folding everything so better be sure.

You need to think about Vs ranges more imo. Yeah they can have some 2p and 66. But that's really not a bunch of hands.

Be aware of when you've shown a lot of weakness. To me, this looks like a great spot for v to bluff. And obviously it would be in reality. Is he still never doing it?


Grunch:

PRE - seems okay. Not sure what the raise size should be here, with the $4 straddle in a 1/2 game with the one guy only starting with $300 and the other with $1k.

FLOP - I could go either way between checking back and making a small 1/3 pot c-bet. Either seems fine.

TURN - I could go either way between folding and calling when a possibly tilted V stabs for 1/2 pot on a brick and we just have the GSSD on a BDFD board.

RIVER - I probably call if I think V is tilting enough to be monkey-stabbing / monkey-barreling. We don't beat much that bets for value, but we made a meh top pair and we block Q9, which is better than nothing. If we're going to call the turn, it seems like we need to have more hands that call than just straights. I guess we could have some 2P, so maybe it's just a sigh-fold, but seems close enough to maybe be a sigh-call sometimes.


My first reaction was how often I have paired the river and improved, but villain still had a better hand. Seemed a clear fold.

With a closer look, I realized that villain could have picked up a diamond draw on the turn, figured nobody had much since the flop checked through, and took a stab. I could do this with Ad5d or KQ.

When the river bricked, villain’s draw could not win at showdown, so $75 - a bluff size I have often seen. But then again, maybe he’s not capable of this type of play. Maybe villain only checked his flop monster because he thought you were going to bet.

Believe me, I am not impressed with K9, but I’m ok with your play pre-flop, because I think I can win in position. But the flop is a critical error I think as this is a time you should pot the flop. They will fold this flop, they likely haven’t hit it hard and it’s easy to think you did. If you’re not going to represent - fold pre.

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