Ongoing VP TR, PART 2!

That's correct.

Are the slot tournaments raked, or conversely, is there an overlay? I assume that Wynn takes a cut to cover the expenses of putting on the event, but I could also see it being a loss-leader for them to get high rollers in the door.

I'm told it's a loss leader, thus to even get the invite is considered a comp. They're trying to get people in the door. The entry fee covers the prize pool but that's it. There's a small win for them in the sense that a lot of the prize pool is free credit vs cash, but even then zero of their expenses are covered by the buy in.

yes, that makes perfect sense. I was only looking at the foreground but the three behind all have caviar.

I've only had caviar once and would never have thought to pair it with potato, but I'm guessing it would be good!

Rest of Day 3

After dinner, we've got about 2 hrs before Jon Batiste. David and I head back to a Wynn craps table.

It's decent right from the get go again and I notch another 3k win. D is basically even for the trip now!

Finally picking up some flags.

We meet my mom at the Encore Theater about 15 min before showtime. That's about on time for me, maybe even late for my mom. Both of us like to get anywhere at least 20-30 min before we have to, it's just in our nature and I learned it from her. Which made the 30 MINUTE delayed start even more annoying. When they finally started, the opening act was... meh. A folk guitarist who writes her own stuff, she was decent but very low energy... and she played MANY songs. At least 8-9 by my count. So by the time Jon Batiste came on, it was 9:30pm, with a supposed start time of 8pm. Kind of annoying.

The show was pretty amazing, I gotta say. Batiste is obv a once in a generation talent that can seamlessly blend musical genres in ways that seem effortless, but at the same time have never been done before. He's obv having fun up on the stage and music just courses through his veins.

It wasn't perfect- he had a guest singer near the middle of the act that he did a number of pieces with, these were all fairly low energy and took us right up to near the end. So we started off weak with the opener, then BANG tons of cool stuff, then a huge cool-off period, and then they finished up tempo, tried to get people dancing and singing etc but it was hard to do that with the number of old people that you'd expect at the Wynn lol, esp coming off 30 min of low energy singing. Hopefully I described that well enough. I found myself looking at my watch a few times which you never want. It's Batiste's fault only in the sense that he controls the order his act is going to go. So overall I'd give his show an 8/10. 10/10 from a musicality perspective for sure. 6/10 for entertainment value.

After the show, it's nearly midnight. I'm beyond exhausted, but hey, last night in Vegas! D and I walk to the Encore and try to keep this Sat craps rungood going- that's a total bust and we get crushed for 2k in record time. I'm not done, still so annoyed at how I just can't find anything approximating a winner at VP, which of course means I'm going to head to VP.

Break even session. At least I had the good sense to get up and go to bed.

Day 3 result- +8k
Overall- -19k

Final Day

This day started off poorly even before it began. I tried to tee up a room service breakfast when I got back to the room Sat night, only to find out all the slots were taken! First available slot was when we were supposed to head to the airport. So obv that's out, and now my typical last day plan of "survive until food, then pack and leave" is totally derailed. I head downstairs to VP. Text D to let him know when he wakes up that we'll have to get food from the cafe.

Obv with this last pic I decided to just go for it. This was another break even session, at some point I was up 3k or so but at the time I wanted to try and book a win. Now that I'm home I wish I had just locked in a win and come home with a little more money.

D is up and I head to the cafe to grab us some over-priced breakfast sandwiches. We get one final craps session in, and I lose another 1k. Now I have to rush around, pack up, change my chips/tickets in... another Vegas trip is in the books. It's a loser, but I can survive this hit. Just so disappointing when you factor in the slot tournaments. Plural. What a waste.

Heading to the airport.

Day 4 result- - 1k
Overall- -20k

Other thoughts- I played a lot of VP, all things considered. the 4AWAK kept me alive, but I should have been dealt quads at least twice based on the hands I put in. I hit no 5 digit hits and no dealt quads. I'm actually lucky to not be dead and buried with that result. I just can't believe how cold VP has been for me, for so long. All my prior run good seems to be balancing out, which is pretty annoying bc while I got fortunate to run as good as I did, for as long as I did, THAT DOESN'T MEAN it has to even out. That's not the way math works.

Craps once again proved itself. As awful as it was for most of the trip, the reality is the good sessions eventually came and if we just look at the craps results themselves, I was either a micro-loser or maybe even small winner. Gotta remind myself of this for the future- as bad as a craps table can FEEL, there is no money sink like shtty VP.

Thanks for reading!

It seems as if you have a good ability to shake off these losing trips and keep your head up. Thank you for reporting them, too. They're an important part of the story.

Not sure what the dates of this trip were, but I heard a recent rumor that the wynn, thankfully, got rid of Triple 0 roulette, I don't play roulette but man that was just a brutal way to take extra money from people not in the know. If true, glad it is gone to prevent more fleecing of unsuspecting visitors. Happen to notice if that was still there?

thanks as ever Leon for the fun trip report. so much time goes into these and we all really appreciate

Especially appreciate the menus. Love to see what upscale dining Las Vegas is up to.
Do you keep track of the set %return on the various machines, and do they change from trip to trip, casino to casino?

I never look at roulette so I wouldn't know, but I'd heard the same rumor.

I'm not sure what to feel about stuff like triple zero roulette or 6:5 BJ. Part of me thinks, "fine, if people are willing to give up even more of an edge and the casino does better, maybe I'll get more comps". The other part realizes it's just a race to the bottom. If the majority of the unwashed masses are totally clueless and willing to take even more the worst of it, obv the casinos will just keep going after the low hanging fruit and have little to no incentive to even offer a better game.

This topic has come up quite often on this board in the past, if everyone had a clue and refused to play these crap games, pay full freight for overpriced food etc they'd have to respond to the market, but obv 99% of people DON'T have a clue and will believe anything they see on the internet.

Always keep track in the sense the paytables and thus return for VP are very well-established and if they make a change you know it immediately (as long as you're looking). Wynn made a huge change years ago, things have been stable at both Wynn and FB now since then. Both pay "strip standard", which on the game I play is about 98% payback. I don't bother keeping track of other games or casinos since I don't see the benefit in spreading my action around. In fact, my next trip to Vegas I have a decision to make- if I don't stay/play at FB it's likely I won't retain the highest status there. My host let things slide last year bc I joined midway thru their cycle but I'm definitely getting the sense she won't or can't do any more for me. My offers from FB haven't been great and it's sort of a negative feedback cycle at this point. I'd rather play at Wynn bc my offers are better and the casino is better, and if I don't play at FB obv my offers will stay crappy, ensuring I won't be there NEXT time, etc.

I'm trying to get comp for F1 and that'll be the make or break for FB. Either they get me in the door, in which case I'll give them enough action to retain my status, or they lose me. My understanding is they're not doing well so I'm very curious to see how this will shake out. They can't just be handing out comp to unproven entities like me. OTOH, if they don't give me more they're going to lose me.

this recent '5 day sale' seems to have been in response to quite a significant drop in revenue for Vegas as a whole. Hopefully that drop continues and prices are brought back down to realistic levels in response. IMO, property prices themselves are still fine, albeit I'd hope they drop, but food and bev in particular are truly awful and represent cynical overcharging, in the same way that the pay tables have got worse on all gambling games

Hey Leon, I can't speak for Wynn or the Venetian but MGM has certainly dangled out F1 related comps to a much much much lower tier this year. I got an email from the Cosmo two weeks ago with some promo / comp to attend the race on their pooldeck. (I have zero play at Cosmo but play at Bellagio)

Amusingly enough, based on freeplay and resort credit offers that are coming in recently I apparently got knocked down a level based on my last stay there in June. In fairness to MGM, I don't think this is them tightening things but just reflective of the fact I coined through less when compared to my previous stay.

With that being said, the prices are nothing compared to the original race a few years ago however the race does disproportionately benefit Wynn, Venetian, Cosmo and to a lesser degree Bellagio but it would be interesting to see if Wynn is relaxed as well. At least the race is a few hours earlier this year....

10/8-10/12 TR

Here we go again! As the title implies, I was there for an extra day. No special reason- my wife was joining me and D this trip, and had to work all day Thurs. There were zero flights that we could take on Thurs which wouldn't impact her work, so we had to come in late Wed night. So yeah, part of me is happy to be there another day, the other part is terrified that I've got more time to potentially get raped, etc. As it is, we may run out of food comp this trip. D is so scared that he elects to come in late Thurs night- he'll be joining us just before dinner.

So, with that as the backstory, I'm only here bc I knew early Sept for the slot tourney to late Nov potentially for F1 was going to be way too long of a break from Vegas for me. This was the only weekend in Oct that worked with my schedule. On top of that, F1 itself may not even work out which leads us into December... yeah, let's book this trip.

Bankroll- 48k. I'm partnered 20% with my mom which is a bigger amount than normal, but I'm still scared money, more so after the slot tourney trip in Sept. We also have 1200 food comp which we've got to make last from Wed night to Sun breakfast.

Agenda- nothing special.
Wed- survive, Thurs dinner at Sinatra, Fri dinner at Washing Potato at FB (first time for my wife), Sat dinner at 6666 steakhouse (also first time for my wife), Sun head home. No shows, nothing else different. The trip came together too late and haphazardly for me to make any other plans.

Day 1

As we're leaving on a late weekday flight, the airport and plane is pretty dead. I could get used to this.

Never gets old.

One advantage of getting in late is that all the welcome goodies are already in the room. Often they don't get delivered right away, then I may have the privacy light on, etc. I've had many trips where I never got my goodies bc they weren't initially delivered and then after that meh F it.

Wife is starving and I'm pretty hungry. I really want to gamble but hey I need to survive. We decide to go to Red 8. This is very unusual for me, to not be gambling within 30 sec of hitting the casino.

Forgot food pics. We ordered all the usual, and Red8 responded with their usual 8/10 quality.

My wife decides to call it an early night since she has to work tomorrow. She places a room service order for tomorrow's breakfast. I head to hi limit, but a different machine...

So. I've been thinking about single line quite a bit over my awful runs at Barona. The reality is the multiline machine at Barona (where I overwhelmingly play quarter credits) is responsible for my two 6-digit hits, and a lot of my massive ones, ONLY when I'm dealt a monster. All the other hits simply keep me alive, and the longer I play the more I figure to be ground down.

Single line for equivalent bet amounts, OTOH represent the other side. Pure feast or famine. I'm almost certainly going to miss every draw and be super frustrated, and go through some LONG dry spells, but on the other hand if I get a lightning strike (eg, pair of aces into 4AWAK, has happened to me countless times in my life), it'll be like it was DEALT on the quarter machine. So, with that thinking in mind, here we go! I start at 10$ credits. I'd prefer to play 100$ per push, but I can't bet more than 5 credits on this machine and 25$ credits is way too big at this stage.

I'm holding my own but this is boring. I'm less than 100 hands in, in for 1k when I get the first dealt quads of the trip!

Spoiler

Show

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I stare at the aces for a bit. Believe it or not, I'm frustrated. Play multiline at Barona or Wynn, 25c or 1$ credits, go thru HUGE dry spells before dealt quad aces. Sit down at single line for less than 100 hands, OF COURSE I get dealt a monster, but with a 75% chance of NO KICKER. This is probably going to be 8 grand. At multiline for 50$ I should get 2/5 of 40k = 16k if I run at expectation. FFFFFF this is probably going to be 8 grand. Let's get ready for it to be 8 grand. It's not the end of the world, in fact an 8 grand hit is a good start. Let's ignore the fact that dealt aces happens oh 1/50,000 give or take. This is probably 8 grand. OK, here we go. No 8 grand, no 8 grand, no 8 grand...

Result-

Spoiler

Show

FFFFFFFF 8 ****** GRAND!!!!!

OK, with that kick in the nuts out of the way, I continue on. I step up to 25$ credits and donk back 2k in lightning time. That was dumb. Step back to 10$ credits and pick up three aces...

OK, this 8 grand I'm actually ok with. I was a huge favorite to not get anything at all.

Objectively, I'm running well on this machine. I step up to 25$ credits, get 3k knocked out of me super fast again, step back down to 10$ credits, then get dealt a monster AGAIN!

Spoiler

Show

HELLO BIG BOY!!!!!!

What timing. Couldn't have happened at 25$ credits. But then, couldn't have happened any other way if anything up until this point hadn't also happened. Second dealt royal in basically 2 months. This one is smaller, but somehow sweeter. Oh the irony. Playing single line precisely bc I DON'T want to have to rely on a dealt monster, and it deals me a monster. Actually 2 already with the quad aces, and we already saw the downside of that.

What a crazy start. I shake my head, step up to 25$ credits again, give back a few k then say... well, let's switch it up to multiline now! Now I can play bigger amounts, but smaller denoms.

I'm going to let the pictures speak for themselves for a while. I started this adventure with about 47k, still only in for 2k.

As can be seen, I- 1) lost, 2) never had many draws despite playing TONS of lines (ARGH), 3) moved to UX at some point.

Eventually I hit that point where I want to use free credit rather than give back more money. I'm still well up, but have given back a lot. I'm not a total idiot and also stepped down, but the damage is done. I took a massive early gift and managed to donk back quite a bit. Forgot I'm not even supposed to be here yet. I could still LOSE for the trip if things turn ugly.

Start.

End, about 66% payback. Not good at all.

I give back more, then head back to the single line machine. Bailout, one more time???

Not to be. Give more back, more, more... OK, time to call it. Still a good first day (magical actually). I've got a good story no matter what. But, GAVE TOO MUCH BACK!!!!!

Day 1 result- +28k
Dealt quads- 1, premium
Dealt royal- 1
5 digit hits- 1

Day 2 coming soon...

Wow! What a first day. Excited to see how the rest of the trip went.

Just out of curiosity, what would the royal 40k translate to if it had hit earlier when you were at 25 (instead of 10)?

The sad thing about the roulette part is that I was walking along Palazzo during WSOP back in June on a weekday night and all the triple zero roulette tables were so full you couldn´t even get close to them. Not that you wanted to, but still. On the entire strip out of all the bigger casinos there is only one single zero roulette table left with low limits, in the corner of the Bellagio. Man I hope that table stays there forever, it really is a well kept secret.

It pays 4000 credits so 4000 x 25 = $100 000.

Sick start, hope it continues!

great start!

Interesting. That's a decent paytable for that game as far as I know. I haven't checked the paytables for super triple play in a long time bc the starting credits were just too big. I'll check it out next time I'm at Wynn- hopefully they have the game for dollars!

Day 2

I wake up at 4:30am... FFFFF. I usually can't sleep well the first night in Vegas, but this is bad even for me. Toss and turn for a bit, then realize it's not happening. My wife has to work all day and D doesn't get in until around dinner time so I figure I could take one or even two naps at some point during the day. I get up and head downstairs.

I literally hit nothing all morning and dump back 10k. Not only am I upset about this AM, but I'm reliving giving back way too much last night as well. I'm only up 16k for the trip now which historically has not lasted me a day many times in the past. I'm vaguely worrried and scared. I head upstairs to meet my wife for room service.

Pretty standard breakfast. Not standard- the fact I remembered to take pics.

After breakfast, I head down and break the seal with dice. It's a slower bleed than VP to be sure, but still a bleed. I'm stuck 2k for that session and head BACK to the room for nap number 1. After the nap, it's back downstairs, but to the multiline quarter machine.

Only hits that session.

At some point, I moved back to hi limit- I'm sure of that. I also gave craps another try. All of it was no good and by the time I head back to the room for nap number 2 I think I'm down 20k for the day, barely clinging to a win and really upset. OMGSDFDF I need my wife to finish work! Anything to stop the bleeding.

After my nap, I'm in a much better mental headspace. It's the afternoon and D is soon to arrive. I reason, on a normal trip I would only have been here a few hrs, probably down at this point. Instead, I've gotten to play quite a bit and am still up. That's a far better result than normal and I should look at the upside. My wife is "done", but wants to finish up a few things. I walk over to Encore, see a 15$ craps table and know I have to lock that up for my wife. I play slow, and let the pit boss know she's coming down. When she finally arrives, we have a decent, choppy, overall loser session. I think I lost a few hundred so not bad at all; I got her in the game for 1k and she's actually up a bit since she bets small and doesn't press much like I do. D has arrived- he sets his stuff down in the room and joins us just in time for dinner at Sintra. We'll call that session a wash.

Sinatra

They had their "truffle special" as usual, but the item was different this time- some kind of truffle ravioli. It sounded amazing actually, but the only reason we didn't get that was the appetizer price was 170$! Sorry, on limited food comp there's no way we're getting that. All food 8/10, and most were repeats of past trips. I'm nothing if not a creature of habit.

After dinner, it's time for the first dice session with D. My wife is exhausted and possibly coming down with a cold, so she heads upstairs. D and I play for hrs- it's never terrible, and we manage to to mix in one decent and one legitimately hot roll in there- I had the 4 up to 1500$ starting from 100$ on that one.

Rack pic after the great roll.

Eventually things start to cool off a bit. It's after midnight and I've made a nearly 50% recovery from what has objectively been a really crappy day.

In for 4, out for 14k and change.

Day 2 result- -10k
Overall- +16k

Day 3 coming soon...

pretty good recovery and a great dice result.

(OMG those chips are filthy)

Amazing recovery there.

Out of interest how do you set your bets up at the start at the roll? Do you pretty much press up or collect and press?

Slowly scrolling down through the first few pictures in a Leon TR, waiting for the inevitable "Never gets old" to appear, never gets old either. ♥