How to detect collusion?
I play 6max PLO games that feature majority of the villains open limping and over limping, high vpip numbers over 60% and 70%, almost never folding preflop to any number of raises, nearly all pots are 4+ players... and winners are often showing really unusual starting hand choices (which is expected if they are playing 70% of their hands I suppose).
How can one tell if these are true fishy tables, or if they are collusion rings?
7 Replies
I've come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as an online poker game in 2025 that regularly runs with 66%+ of the villains so clueless about how to play poker that they are 60%+ VPIP and nearly exclusively open limping and over limping for multiway pots.
It seems much more likely to me that these conditions are human or bot collusion rather than a truly fair game.
What limits/buy-ins? I play full-ring PLO on an app, and at .50/$1 where they can buy in for $20, they all limp/call with almost anything -- four players is normal pre. Get a little deeper ($1/$2 and up with a $100+ buy-in) and it's more like live (which still has a lot of limp/calling, mind you). I know my player pool, though, and I'm 99% sure there is very little collusion.
What limits/buy-ins I play full-ring PLO on an app, and at .50/$1 where they can buy in for $20, they all limp/call with almost anything -- four players is normal pre. Get a little deeper ($1/$2 and up with a $100+ buy-in) and it's more like live (which still has a lot of limp/calling, mind you). I know my player pool, though, and I'm 99% sure there is very little collusion.
I'm playing 6max $100 buy-in on Ignition.
It's probably just the nature of PLO, and even worse online at lower stakes (in my online 1/2, most buy in for $200). Watch a few streams, like from the Lodge, and you'll see how much limp/calling there is. When I play live, the limp/calling is insane.
However, I recommend paying attention to who is in which hands and when to see if there are any patterns -- just in case.
Look for
Same players sitting at tables together
Sitting and leaving at or near the same time
Soft-playing each other and hard-playing you (seems like every hand where I play)
Limping/soft-playing big hands like AA when the normal player would raise
Raise 'battles' between hands that should call or fold
Most likely it's the rake beating you, rather than colluding players
FTR I'm 3bb/100 winner according to drive HUD and my cashier balance -- I'm not trying to explain losses.
Tables on iggy are anonymous, so you can't watch for who regularly sits together. (or can you? when the tables first went anonymous there was a thread on 2p2 from someone who cracked the anonymity and could see all player's ID numbers. I wonder if there is still a vulnerability because it definitely seemed like the pool was playing differently vs me after the first couple thousand hands.)
There was one session in particular where a villain was playing 15% VPIP. But as soon as a new player joined across the table it was like a switch flipped and suddenly he was 60% VPIP and the new player was matching him. I started to test predicting whether they would continue in a hand or fold based on the action of the other and I was over 90% accurate (if one folded then they both folded, if one continued then they both continued). When they showed down their hands often complemented each other. Then, after a couple hours, the new player left the table and the first guy went back to 15% VPIP. I notified support and they said everything looked fine to them. To be clear, there were more things than just this one session that made me question the security of the tables, but this session stands out.
Full ring live PLO is a limp fest (as another poster noted above) -- but I suspect it's difficult to find a pool of 6max online players that are that clueless. Well, after 2005 anyways.
In any case, I'm pulling out of iggy.
FTR I'm 3bb/100 winner according to drive HUD and my cashier balance -- I'm not trying to explain losses.Tables on iggy are anonymous, so you can't watch for who regularly sits together. (or can you? when the tables first went anonymous there was a thread on 2p2 from someone who cracked the anonymity and could see all player's ID numbers. I wonder if there is still a vulnerabil
Good. If you expect collusion you should leave. The amount of play necessary to "prove" collusion is too expensive if there is collusion.