Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions
Use this thread if you have a potentially standard question, a line check, some other nonsense that is not threadworthy.
I guess pertinent to the topic but are you really folding TPTK to basically a tiny minclick (r32)? This V was the least known of the fish and had sat down pretty recently. I can see folding to future barrels, but really fold the flop?? Seems like this can be worse Tx at least 25% of the time..
I'm not saying you should always bet 33-38%/fold on the flop with TPTK on a somewhat drawy board where lots of hands have something ... but lots of things would suggest it here:
1. Everyone is listed as passive.
2. Flop pot is small, and I assume SPR is 10x+.
3. We are in bluff catch mode already OOP with few outs (and hitting two pair makes AK "get there" if V is raising worse, and puts you on that).
4. Hero image is assumed to be active/aggressive, and at 1-2 people will almost always call down instead of raise lighter.
5. Even without the image people aren't raising JT, and rarely raising QT ... so you are mostly targeting KT.
6. Not to repeat #3 but even if we are ahead now we need to get to showdown and still be ahead, which means we are relying on V slowing down (if he's raising KT for value why wouldn't he continue betting at least once more on brick runouts).
7. And not to repeat #3 again we've put like $13 in the pot, and it's difficult for us to bet for value again ... so our downside is huge and our upside is almost entirely based on "bluff catching" correctly.
8. While r32 sounds good (raise 12 into 37), if you checked V just bet pot.
...about the only upside is that 1-2 players will put way too much relative money into the pot when the absolute value is still low.
Quite possible I am making mistakes here at value extraction multiway, but the theme seemed to be that fish were scared of me and in particular very scared of even small raises
AT hand - feels like you lost the min - yes you never think you're good there but as played you got to call for such a good price
AK hand - you have top pair with a flush draw on the board going 3 way and only bet $4 into a $16 pot? you don't accomplish anything with that - may as well check and better disguise the strength of your holdings to let them bluff you - betting $4 keeps in any hand that has equity against you and folds out all the hands that basically need two outers - it accomplishes nothing other than removing bluffs from opponents and ensuring that remaining players have stronger ranges
yes, the reraise to the $6 donk was also very small, a very small bet, but you've telegraphed to the world that you really, really like your hand and you have no interest in bluffing given the small sizing - wouldn't be surprised if a weaker ace folded there
66 hand - you flop bottom set on a dry board in a single raised pot and decide to check raise - you know it's unlikely to have A6 or AK/AQ so you're really hoping for a sticky AJ/AT or he has A9 - or even worse, he has 99 or a very weirdly played AA - really nothing else is going to continue other than 87 - just so bizarre that you would fast play here when others are betting into you with what are very likely highly speculative holdings and you got the obvious result
thanks for all the comments guys. Agree with the POV that if we're calling pre, I don't think we can fold on this flop.really felt though that he would have (should have) c bet with AK there and his range seems stronger when he checks flop and then bombs turn. ie, I'm also not checking back AK on the flop, so if he's shoving the turn is he doing it with KK+ to get value from
wow, never would have put him on JJ there for some merged play - would have always thought he'd shove a hand like that on the flop, would think for sure he was either ace high or KK+ with how he played it
yes, the reraise to the $6 donk was also very small, a very small bet, but you've telegraphed to the world that you really, really like your hand and you have no interest in bluffing given the small sizing - wouldn't be surprised if a weaker ace folded there66 hand - you flop bottom set on a dry board in a single raised pot and decide to check raise - you know it's unlikely to
I think some of this is the point though - if these lines are folding even most top pair hands, it seems like a cheap and highly profitable bluff.
The set hand I agree is probably much better to call and check the turn, but if there is one consistent thing that drives my profit it's that sometimes fish just can not fold a hand once they get attached, and say f*** it guess I need throw in the rest of my chips.
1/3 game thats tough with a few lags
$1500 deep 9 handed
$6 straddle, UTG + 1, opens $20, I call UTG + 2 with JJ, UTG + 3 tag 3b to $90, sb loose passive call, UTG +1 call, i call. UTG + 3 is capable of bombing huge bets in position.
flop AA8 two hearts, i have no hearts, check to UTG + 3 who range bet $100, sb calls, UTG + 1 folds
play?
if you call tell me your turn/river plan, because they probably are not going to check through.
here is a dumb hand
$1/3
i open QQ UTG $15, $1400 deep. 4 people call including lag otb, sb, bb. alarms should be going off that if i dont flop a set here im done with the hand (oops).
flop 963 rainbow, blinds check, i check, chedkt o lag OTB who bets 1/2 pot, blinds fold, i call, anothe person calls behind which surprised me quite a bit as hes not super loose postflop. the guy who called behind only has like $120 left.
turn 6 puts up flush draw. here i do something very dumb and donk $100 because i got screwed up thinking the one guy behind is drawing with a 78 or 45, he folds, the lag raises to $225.
your play?
if you call whats your plan on rivers?
also anyone just fold the flop knowing 1) too many people called pf, and 2) the lag will probably bomb 3 streets once you check flop and you can only stand 2 streets of heat?
after someone else calls it's a pretty simple fold imo despite that there'll definitely be times that utg+3 was just spazzing with Q high and sb hero'd with 89
pretty annoyed with myself over this one
old man who is not interested in gambling or playing poker - pretty much just high hand farming and either limps in or folds pre flop - have not seen him raise a single hand in a few hours and likewise last few times i played with him was the same
bomb pot AKhh in mp
Ad2h4h flop - old man leads for $50 into pot of $80 pre rake - i opt to call everyone else folds
turn 8d - old man leads out $75 i call
river Kc - old man snap puts out $100
i hate it - at worst he has 24, maybe some A2 or A4 but i'm thinking most of the time he has a set or wheel - missing my flush and potentially coolering all his 2p i just call and he flips over 35 for the wheel
i fell like with a king on the river, i kind of half to call for that price given he could be playing A4 the same way - but wondering if others could find a fold there
or more importantly, what do we do it the river is a blank and he leads out for $100 again?
pretty annoyed with myself over this oneold man who is not interested in gambling or playing poker - pretty much just high hand farming and either limps in or folds pre flop - have not seen him raise a single hand in a few hours and likewise last few times i played with him was the samebomb pot AKhh in mpAd2h4h flop - old man leads for $50 into pot of $80 pre rake - i opt to ca
how deep are you?
i dont think i could fold for that price
i could fold a river brick
old guy started with 600, i cover
pretty annoyed with myself over this oneold man who is not interested in gambling or playing poker - pretty much just high hand farming and either limps in or folds pre flop - have not seen him raise a single hand in a few hours and likewise last few times i played with him was the samebomb pot AKhh in mpAd2h4h flop - old man leads for $50 into pot of $80 pre rake - i opt to ca
So we know when he initially bets he has an absolute minimum of 2 pair but more likely better as being a bomb pot all hands are possible and he won't gamble. Assuming we put him on sets and the straight so only the flush wins we have a call on the flop but not a call on the turn unless we think someone that will not gamble will pay us when the front door flush hits. You don't beat a nut peddler by calling his bets unless they are small enough that he is pricing in your draws.
pretty annoyed with myself over this oneold man who is not interested in gambling or playing poker - pretty much just high hand farming and either limps in or folds pre flop - have not seen him raise a single hand in a few hours and likewise last few times i played with him was the samebomb pot AKhh in mpAd2h4h flop - old man leads for $50 into pot of $80 pre rake - i opt to ca
I would try to be happy that I didn't put all the money in on the flop.
river Kc - old man snap puts out $100i hate it - at worst he has 24, maybe some A2 or A4 but i'm thinking most of the time he has a set or wheel - missing my flush and potentially coolering all his 2p i just call and he flips over 35 for the wheeli felt like with a king on the river, i kind of have to call for that price given he could be playing A4 the same way - but wondering
I don't think most Vs with the above read play A4, or worse, the same way as often as they do 22/44/53. But it's still annoying/difficult to fold when you hit the K specifically. Would be much easier to fold if anything else hit the river (even the A).
pretty annoyed with myself over this oneold man who is not interested in gambling or playing poker - pretty much just high hand farming and either limps in or folds pre flop - have not seen him raise a single hand in a few hours and likewise last few times i played with him was the samebomb pot AKhh in mpAd2h4h flop - old man leads for $50 into pot of $80 pre rake - i opt to ca
Other than sitting out the bomb pot in the first place, I play it the same way. We're getting well over 4:1 on the river, we run into worse two pear enough, imo.
Gnicehand,imoG
I would consider folding turn. TPTK is no good here and we don't get the direct odds to draw the flush... maybe we can extract enough value on a heart river to make up for it, but against this player type I'm not so sure.
River is a crying call for now beating flopped 2p.
I would consider folding turn. TPTK is no good here and we don't get the direct odds to draw the flush... maybe we can extract enough value on a heart river to make up for it, but against this player type I'm not so sure.
For a bigger turn bet I could get behind this. But we're facing < 1/2 PSB and getting about 3.5:1, so I think we have to continue.
Gsometimespokersucks,imoG
appreciate the feedback - especially the "but will you get paid if you hit the flush" which i think is something i didn't properly ask myself at the time
pretty sure if a heart comes he check/folds to anything other than the smallest of bets
appreciate the feedback - especially the "but will you get paid if you hit the flush" which i think is something i didn't properly ask myself at the time
pretty sure if a heart comes he check/folds to anything other than the smallest of bets
Even if we have him on a set, if I've mathed right we need about a 1/3rd PSB bet to be paid off (admittedly 100% of the time, and admittedly we have RIO on pairing boards). Still, he doesn't always have a set, sometimes our A/K outs are good, and is it even possible we're up against AQ/etc. some of the time on the turn facing this sizing (and cool with folding the river UI if he continues cuz this guy never bets 3 streets with one pear).
Gpaythatmanhismoniez,imoG
Get KK in mp with about 1k behind player to my right makes it 10, I pop it to $35, btn calls as well as OR
OR has about 400 seems competent and regularly tops up his stack he’s a young SE Asian
btn had played several orbits since my arrival with <$100 so despite looking reggy with scruffy face white boy in 20s with hoodie, headphones and watching something on his screen he feels like a Barger - but recently topped up to 500 so maybe he was just trying something new - other than stack size he seems reggy based on his repeated 3!
Flop T92 rainbow OR checks, I bet $75, btn calls OR folds
Turn 2
X, x
River 9
Board is T9922, I think we’re going too thin betting and JJ or QQ will likely bet thin and I can just call
Btn snap bets $200 after I check
I call, he tables TT, feel fortunate like I lost the min here
Can’t be too mubsy here. The golden rule of 1/2 and 1/3 is that people make calling mistakes far more than anything else. Keep betting til they play back. It’s far more likely that villain calls with a worse hand than bluffs/value bets with one.
Turn is a clear bet imo for value out of A10, K10, jj and qq and then any straight draws he has and lower pockets he’s being stubborn with
As played, River is a bet/fold
Even if we have him on a set, if I've mathed right we need about a 1/3rd PSB bet to be paid off (admittedly 100% of the time, and admittedly we have RIO on pairing boards). Still, he doesn't always have a set, sometimes our A/K outs are good, and is it even possible we're up against AQ/etc. some of the time on the turn facing this sizing (and cool with folding the river UI if
Assuming we believe the description(he does not gamble) after we call the first bet he does not have AQ ever and is very unlikely to have only 2 pair. Remember it is a bomb pot; all the 35s are possible, all the sets are possible, and someone that does not gamble does not bet with that many hands that beat him possible. He is super easy to beat as described by NEVER paying him when he hits which he always bets and never bluffs. He won't pay you when you hit as he does not gamble and calling a made front door flush is gambling.
I normally play 1-2 nl 400 max on the weekends. I missed about 3 months due to health reasons. I just found out that my local casino changed to 1-3 buy in amounts remained the same.
Should I be making any adjustments here or be expecting my opponents to be playing differently? I’m hoping that this might have scared away some of the tight players. On the bravo app I’ve noticed less players at night, maybe it’s just the weather.
Thoughts?
Obvious changes: Open sizes etc. will now be bigger. Limping/calling from the small blind is much worse.
From what I've seen 1-3 plays the same as 1-2, unless the room has both (and even then it's just a bit more sweaty).
or be expecting my opponents to be playing differently I'm hoping that this might have scared away some of the tight players. On the bravo app I've noticed less players at night, maybe it's just the weather.
Would not expect many players to leave, if anything the tight players should be happier. Maybe if you had some min. buyin players and they had another option they'd go there instead.
I normally play 1-2 nl 400 max on the weekends. I missed about 3 months due to health reasons. I just found out that my local casino changed to 1-3 buy in amounts remained the same.Should I be making any adjustments here or be expecting my opponents to be playing differently I'm hoping that this might have scared away some of the tight players. On the bravo app I've noticed les
Our room switched it's lowest game from 1/2 NL ($200 max BI) to 1/3 NL ($300 max BI) in 2010. Kinda irked me cuz I was just getting my feet wet in NL, struggling a bit, and all of a sudden forced to play a bigger game. In the end, it really wasn't much different in terms of opponents and what they were doing. Poker degens are going to poker degen, so while some may moan about it, they're still going to show up and play. The biggest affect it had in our room at the time was beforehand there were 1/2 NL versus 2/5 NL games and each had their own player pools, but the introduction of the 1/3 NL game killed the 2/5 NL game and thus the player pool expanded.
Gplayyourgame,andifitwaswinningbeforeitwillwinagainG
If we have AK/AQ
flop is A93 Rainbow or dryish
does just potting or overpotting make most $ for us long term if we up against someone who will play fit/fold? as in if they have any A or 9 they are calling a pot sized bet or so so why not ?
