Getting tricky with AA

I think the initial flat is a matter of some debate*, but you HAVE to pull off the NYBR once you manage to actually get in this spot. People will pay you off extremely light and it’s the entire reason you flat here. Dream spot squandered.

* I don’t tend to think it’s worth it CO vs BTN assuming the raiser isn’t a total nit/short-stacked etc. You’re just hoping for one specific outcome and it’s almost certainly happening <20% of the time. It can make sense in earlier position where the tree of possibilities is enormous and/or (as alluded to above) the raiser is too tight/has too little money left behind to where all the real action is left to act, etc.

I wouldn’t try to get too fancy. 3b vs CO open. 4b now

it seems that you make to drastic deviations based on not clear enough reads / assumptions same happend imo in the hand that you posted view days ago with your set 55 on 952. Try to be more mindful about your assumptions and how confident you are in them.
Calling AA here is a big punt as soon bb is not a maniac who is also spewing postflop and not just give up as soon you call so to many variables for that drastic deviation.
It would be interesting what you saw form villain for example some hands / showdowns etc to understand better how much you should deviate based on this information

What are your effective stack sizes btw you and the BB player? If it's shallow I could see flatting again but with a deeper stack you want to win more of his money so go ahead and 4b.

You need to back 4!. No point of flatting is you are going to flat again.

I'd be more inclined to make this play if V opened UTG and we were UTG1, with 6-7 potential squeezers still left to act. When he's CO and we're BTN, our 3B range is going to be wide enough that we can still get action, so I'd typically just 3B.

If the situation was unusual in that I recognized a antagonistic dynamic between CO and BB, especially if BB or CO seemed to not respect my game, and thus not respect my call, I might consider flatting with the intention of back-raising a 3B from the BB (or, please please please, a 4B from CO!).

But the thing is - when we get what we wanted, we have to stay consistent and follow through with the 4B. If our fear is that he over-folds, then that runs counter to the reasoning which got us here.

That said, if we happen to get here the way we did, and we decide that BB will over-fold to our back 4B, then I could see flatting again, understanding that we'll need to adjust our post flop play. I'd think we'd want to play AA as a raise over most small c-bets or as a stab if he checks. We'll want to be careful not to over-do it on boards that favor our double-flatting range.

Mostly I'd just avoid this line.

The flat call is OK. If you back raise, the BB can't be sure you have AA/KK or you could be bluffing representing that, knowing CO is raising light and BB is 3-betting light.

It depends how often BB will squeeze, if he just does it reflexively yes I would flat AA with the plan to re-raise but I would have already considered the table conditions and mentally assembled a group of hand to do this with. It shouldn't only be AA, like start with some or all combos of AK, add some other premium e.g. QQ or KK, and if you know BB has a fold button, consider bluffs as well.

Bear in mind that this active squeezing dymanic screws up hands that would otherwise be nice to flat on the button with e.g. mid pockets. So you need some kind of plan to deal with this because now you need to avoid overcalling, instead you're going to have to 3bet or fold some hands.

Having laid the trap, not executing it is pretty bad. We need to get value from our nut hand, which should be the overriding imperative with AA and only rarely deviated from. Meta-wise, I want to discourage this guy from squeezing me and making my life difficult. I want him to understand that he's going to be facing backraises and that he can't just grab my equity with impunity. But I'm not planning everything around doing that, it should be an emergent result of my behaviour when dealing with an habitual squeezer.

TL; DR either 3bet or overcall/4bet, not flat-flat.

You could backraise with suited broadway or whatever. He doesn't have to fold much immediately. He can fold later in the hand, concerned you have QQ+/AK.

Saw the title and assumed it'd go horrifically ... preflop double call is the best way to get there, gg.

Now we just need to pile all the money in postflop with one pair on a bad board.

If you know he's going to 3bet, the reason to flat the first time is so you can 4bet.

If you can't 3! with AA from the button without confidence that you'll get at least one caller, you aren't 3!ing enough. There is no reason to let people see a cheap flop when you have AA.

If bb is aggressive, he might 4! if he's observed you 3!ing frequently.

When you are playing aggressive with appropriate frequency, your AA will get paid because nobody believes you get AA too and you can just play it honestly.

The backraise plan is fine, even though it looks stronger than a 3!. You just need to go through with it. When you call/call, you risk it not being a 3! pot with no benefit, except that your hand is disguised.

You slowplayed once because you had a good read that someone else would reopen the action for you. Once that happens, you no longer have a reason to keep slowplaying. You have to 4bet the second time preflop. Maybe the guy will 5bet you! Give him a chance to make a huge mistake instead of a medium-sized one.

I'm skeptical that the BB is actually 3-betting aggressively enough to justify the initial flat, but he did do it this time so that may have been a good read on your part. Definitely if you see him reaching for chips to raise or something like that I could see flatting with the intention of back-raising.

After you got what you wanted I think you've got to put in the 4-bet. You never gave the exact stack sizes, which is very relevant, but I would aim at sizing the 4-bet so you're putting in about 1/6-1/4 of your stack. You want to size it so you're not necessarily pot-committed and could be raise-folding with bluffs. Inducing him to jam would be an excellent result.

If effective stacks are deeper like $1000 I would probably make it like $170-ish. You want to get the SPR down. If stacks are shorter like $400-$500 effective I could see 4-betting very small, like barely over a min-raise.

I don't think your reasoning for flatting his raise closing the action makes sense. You flatted a cutoff open and when you back raise I would expect him to think you think he is FOS before thinking you have aces. If the dynamic is really like you described and he is getting way out of line 3-betting, couldn't you potentially even be raising something like AJs for value? At least from his perspective? I would expect a player like you described to fight back by reraising sometimes and people always tend to call too much in these spots. Anyway you're playing right into his hands by flatting the 3-bet. Don't fall into fancy play syndrome.

You make some very valid points, there was history of the BB making this move numerous times previously so i was reasonably confident of the play. Just a little unsure how to proceed pre flop but 4 betting does make more sense than flatting again.

It’s okay to trap occasionally if you know the squeeze comes super often. But flatting in position caps you while BB’s range is uncapped, and you’re giving up initiative with the best hand in holdem. Solvers basically never slowplay AA preflop for that reason. EV gap isn’t huge if your read is strong, but you’re playing a guessing game.

If we are making a certain play with the nuts, then making that play, by definition, does NOT cap us.

I like the initial flat call given reads. Sometimes it won't be 3! and your hand will be disguised. It would be better if you got the 3! in, but that is OK if you think the 3! is usually coming. Given dynamics, as mentioned the loose 3-bettor isn't going to know whether you have a premium hand or if you are playing back at him.

But how much is any V 3!ing from the BB? If we say he is 3!ing 50% of hands, then 50% of the time we're going to the flop with a $30 pot. That's a disaster for AA, and that's assuming BB is a nut 3!ing 50% of hands. AA is a hand that performs well in pots with small SPRs. As SPRs get larger, AA starts trending toward being a hand that loses big pots and wins little ones. In a $30 pot, you're winning $30 a lot, when the pot balloons to $500+ from $30, AA is no good. We want SPRs at a place where it is natural for TPGK to get all in.

If V is really 3!ing that much, then we can punish the heck out of him by 4!ing a lot, and the kind of player who is 3!ing 50% of hands OOP has a 4! bluff range and is probably flatting 3!s pretty wide too.

I wish posters would stop questioning an OP's reads on his Villains. Newbie gave a read for a reason, and he was right (imagine that). Just move on.

Maybe a 3bet is better, regardless, but that doesn't change Newbie's read. Yes, he should have 4bet...

I'm not sure why this bothers you. Speaking for myself I wasn't even questioning his read, just questioning whether the read is enough of a reason to justify flatting aces vs a late position open in a deep stack spot. I think this is a fair question.

Like what percentage of the time does the BB have to be squeezing to make flatting a better play for us? To me if he was squeezing 20% I would consider that a very aggressive dynamic, but that would mean he's still not squeezing 4 out of 5 times. In that case I would argue it's probably still better to just 3-bet in position. if he's squeezing like 50% then I could see that being enough of a reason to flat, but that would mean he's 3-betting with a lot of really junky hands. I think it's fair to question whether that's really the case.

Fair enough. I know what you mean. That does happen a lot on here. I might even be guilty of it myself at times.

This situation seems fair to question though. What 3-bet percentage from the BB does it take before flatting becomes the better play with AA? I'm not sure but I suspect they would have to be getting WAY out of line before AA becomes higher EV as a flat.