Limping a Straddle Five-Way with 89s in the CO at 225 Eff.

Small error in OP. It doesn't make much difference. Here's the corrected action bolded:

Flop (21): JsAsTh.

V2 bets 10. BB folds. V1 calls. Hero? Hero calls.V3 calls. BB folds. V2 and V1 call. Three-way.

Turn (55): Ks

Checks to hero. Hero?

With a TAG image, I'm so tempted to raise the flop, but calling is probably better.

As played, bet. $25 - $30 is fine.

It’s the third nut flush, AKJ98s. (In the hand, I thought I had the second nut flush. It was certainly an overwhelming spot for me multiway, and I didn’t want give a tell thinking too long in a tank bet.)

I would add that AA, QsX, and TsX are drawing to the 500 high hand promotion, though we can discount AA.

Finally, V3 is a LAG.

Agreed. 4th in, 5-way, this is a raise/call on a flop you smash. Vs may think, "Limped pot, broadway flop, and H raises? Uh-huh." H's equity on combo draws falls a ton if they whiff turn. So might as well get money in now. KQ is unlikely, even as passive as 1/2 Vs tend to be. And H has redraw outs anyway.

I get good BR management, but not covering the loose, bad donating players is not good.

Aside, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that calling 98s this shallow, even in a large, MW limped pot, is -EV. If your read is that BU never 3!s, I guess it's not that bad. But H is setting themselves up to pay more rake this way (versus tighter and much more raising/3!) and it's already onerous.

Raise or fold pre. If you're in a deep game these SCs get better but when around 100bb there isn't enough room to maximize their potential. If Vs are going to limp fold a lot, raise. If they are all going to call, just fold. Yes it sucks when you see you would have hit, but most of the time you won't.

AP, we have to bet a bit thin for value now. So maybe $30.

Hero actually bets 50. Only V1 calls.

River (225): Kc

V checks. Hero?

Hand continues. Note I sized-down the turn pot with the rake to 44.

OTTH

V3 straddles the BTN 5. BB calls. V2 in the SB calls. V1 in UTG calls. Hero with 8s9s in the CO. Hero? Hero calls. V3 calls. Five-way.

Flop (21): JsAsTh.

V2 bets 10. BB folds. V1 calls. Hero? Hero calls. V3 folds. BB folds. V1 and V2 call. Now three-way.

Turn (44): Ks

Checks to hero. Hero? Hero actually bets 50. Only V1 calls.

River (125): Kc

V1 checks. Hero?

I think he has broadway a lot (Qs comes to mind) and wants to call another 50.

There is so little left that if you bet, it would feel gross to have to fold, but bet/fold $50 is a good line. Tough for him to call, but he might bet sticky w/ a straight or some random K9 that got sticky on the flop.

Results

Hero thinks I can bet for value targeting 7s6s-3s4s, and also as a bluff against TsXs. I overlooked QsXs. Hero thought I want to bet and be able to fold to a raise. Should I bet 30?

Hero bets 50. V1 instacalls, shows Qs6s, and scoops.

Rake: it’s the same in Vegas, minus the promos. I know some home games that rake even more. It affects the game massively.

Bankroll and buy-in: It sucks buying-in so shallow with the rake to 60. I took a shot at 2/5, and the variance nearly broke my bankroll. But I’m slowly building my bankroll at 1/2. As long as I don’t lose my bankroll, my wife encourages me to play, and it’s great learning experience.

Preflop: I think preflop was the inflection point. I didn’t want to raise, because raising is a bluff, and the table was full of calling stations. The LAG on BTN could very well 3 bet me here, and even if he just calls, I’m oop against an aggressive player playing for a big pot. Did I mention the table was full of calling stations? Yeah, I guess you can make a nitty fold here.

Flop: I thought about raising the flop too, then just called. Never bluff a calling station! BTW: For what it’s worth, V1 is a forty-five year old woman

Turn: I thought let’s bet big. You have the second nuts (actually the third) facing two calling stations.

River: Why bet 50 and not less or more? Any ideas?

Turn bet is gigantic. I think every Qx is folding here unless they're fishes.

I rather raise flop than bet so big on turn.

When we have like the 3rd nuts or whatever, probably betting small, this is a limped pot. Not sure about bloating the pot.

Once river pairs not sure what hands we beat for value after betting so huge on turn. I'd probably check back.

We never have boats here, villain can have some. Villain can also have higher flushes.

So if we bet again, not sure what hands we beat can call us.

I am betting big against calling stations who are supposed to fold Qx here, and they still call?

On the flop, a raise as a bluff has less value against a calling station than a nit.

The calling stations give reason to toss 89s preflop so shallow stacked, even with great pot odds.

Because the pots become more valuable above 60, I was betting big to play better hands with big pots. 89s was the worst at the bottom of my range (hence I posted the hands). I suspect my profit comes when loose-passives calling stations make mistakes calling big bets over multiple streets. Scooping preflop means no rake for the house. Most of the rake for the house comes off the flop. At 225 with rake up to 60, I'm looking to get in stacks.

I think preflop calling is fine.

You only said villain is a calling station but are they that bad that they really just call with naked Qx on turn and river? I guess it's a fine play if they do.
Like most fishes I play with, knows how to read the board as well. In a multiway pot, fishes ranges are way tighter than you think. In headsup pot, they have higher chance to call down because they think they are "bluff catching" or whatever. In multiway pots, there are alot fewer bluffs. Qx calling big on a flush board in a multiway pot is crazy. Like they have to be uber whale to call down.

Rake up to 60??? No way that game is profitable unless the whole pool is full of crazy whales.

Rake is $60????? Don't play in this game

I don't mind preflop, even though it's not a great hand to go 666 ways ... but you have to raise flop, all of your draws are bad when they hit but you have a decent hand on the flop (not as good as a usual straight+flush draw though because it's much easier to be dominated).

It's marginal calling flop if a single V bet and it got to you, depending on how many others have folded, but when there's already a bet+call and still two people behind (no folds so far) it's going to go bad.

Turn too big, but that's less of a problem than flop IMO.

I would be tempted to check back river, but as an exploit I think your bet is fine.

I was thinking V2 is a terrible player. He will hang himself if hero hits. I’m up against two stations. Bluffing for value doesn’t work.

Probably better to fold preflop then, hands like 98s will flop "bluff value" most of the time they hit.

And to be clear 2nd NFD + gutter probably isn't folding anyway, and you'd lose more money than you did ... but without being omniscient you have to think about Kd9d folding and giving you 12%+ of equity.

Five-way, 89s is barely ev- or ev+. Always fold this **** if you want to make money. I asked: why am I here? To play correctly or have fun? The biggest mistake in poker is to play too many hands. But sometimes I'm like everyone else. Folding so many hands just to win money is boring.

The idea that you "have to" play nitty is bs. Players at these stakes make mistakes that are miles wide post flop. The only time you have to get nitty is if players are frequently jamming, which does happen sometimes, but usually you have these limpfests.

The mistake isn't playing the hand, it's playing the hand passively. Make it big pre flop, Q6 folds sometimes. When you flop this much equity, you're shallow enough to gii, and Q6 will sometimes fold. If not, whatever. NH, reload take your money back later. If he calls $40 pre and flop jam with Q6s, good for him.

With the straddle we are 45bb deep and I'm folding preflop with this lineup and this rake structure if I'm trying to win money. We can call for amusement if that's our objective.

Op: when you get the lineup of Vs that you want, why not buy in bigger?

I spent far too much time thinking about the answer to your question. I built my bankroll first while off my bipolar meds--how's that for "special powers!"--buying in for 335 off a roll of 500. I swung a lot but observed people manically, teetering around $800 for months, then going up, assuming I was making winning reads even though I still spewed. Back on my meds, no more spewing. I do observe well. I keep the swings smaller as I learn the game better. Maybe I'll just skip 1/3 and move up to 2/5 when I get my pension and kid leaves the house? Until I have a roll with 30 buyins, buyin is a personal decision related to my liferoll. When I was hypomanic, when I felt no fear, I bought in for 335 and rode out the swings better than when I approach my life responsibly. Short answer: medication and bankroll management. I love poker but hate gambling.

Makes sense to preserve your health and play your best game.
Be well brother..