Awkward Turn Spot - did I misplay to here?
1/3 NLHE 8 handed
Table is fluctuating between good and bad, the dynamic has changed quite dramatically as V has sat down. On his first hand, he asked the dealer for pocket aces and was dealt aces and doubled up. This is one orbit later.
V - Indian maniac/whale. The guy that vpips 100%, opens 40 cold, and calls you down and rivers you with 64o on some backdoor FH. He has 415$ for this hand. SB.
--- V eff 415 ---
UTG fish straddles, station limps EP, H sees A♦ 2♦ and opens 25 from HJ, V calls SB, UTG calls, station calls. 4-ways IP.
Flop 100 - K♦ Q♣ 5♦
Check check check, H cbets 40, V calls, fold fold. HU IP.
Turn 180 - 2♠
V checks, H barrels 100, V x/click to 200 leaving 150 back...
18 Replies
Why bet turn?
I probably wouldn't open A2s here - it seems like in live 1/3 people limp in alot and call raises too wide preflop. A2s sucks multiway and when it comes Axx either you're getting owned by a better ace or everyone folds. As played I'm fine with the flop bet given our equity - on the turn I think my default would be a barrel but given what you said about villain you just have to check and try to make a hand.
Grunch:
PRE - don't raise ace-rag suited in games like this.
FLOP - don't c-bet bluff into three loose passive opponents.
TURN - sure, barrel. Think we should probably just jam 2x pot though.
As played, just flat call and pray to spike an Ace, 2 or diamond. If he checks to you on a brick river, just check back.
Pre is OK. It depends on the table and if UTG ever limp RRs, as some do more often in straddled pots.
Flop bet is a little ambitious. But it is OK to narrow the field and keep control of the pot. You could go slightly smaller for this purpose.
We pick up enough show down value that I would lean to checking the turn. We were already beating JT J9 etc. Now beating AT AJ. It doesn't sound like this guy is ever folding a hand we beat.
Yeah, I've been burned by that mistake, you bet turn because NFD+pair looks so good, then feels gross when you're raised. The good news is that whale can have hands like 42 or maybe a weaker FD and we're getting immediate pot odds to draw to the nuts. It's worse when V is nitty. I think calling and assessing the river is the only option.
Once he raises turn, it’s a fold. Even maniacs have patterns, and the classic maniac pattern is: call flop wide → spazz when they’re ahead. Min-raise small stacks = please call me.
Once he raises turn, it’s a fold. Even maniacs have patterns, and the classic maniac pattern is: call flop wide → spazz when they’re ahead. Min-raise small stacks = please call me.
Seriously? You have to be trolling, we're getting 5:1 on the call. If V turned up KK face up we're getting the right odds to call, even if we assume V folds when the flush comes in.
Your mistake was barreling turn. After he raises, easy fold
I don't see how we fold turn, with a pair, one over, and the nut flush draw, getting 4.8:1 pot odds and 6.3:1 implied odds.
We only need around 17.25% equity to make a pot odds call. I'd think we have at least that much. If this guy has any bluffs at all, we have more than enough equity.
I could see jamming here, if we think he ever folds 1P.
people want to fold the turn? do you guys understand pot odds and implied odds? or are you just trolling or posting trash advice on purpose?
Preflop, I would limp. If you are going to raise, 25 in awfully small to a straddle for 6 and a call. You maybe don't care about isolating with this hand, but a 4x at 2 limps in strange with large preflop raise usually standard at 1/3.
Checking back the turn is probably better. As played, it is a really easy call with pot odds. You have a big draw on the turn with the nut flush draw and straight draw. You can also make 2-pair or trips. You are 32% on the turn against KQ for top 2 pair.
I can't see how his x/r sizing can be good with any hand on this wet board. He should shove if he is going to x/r.
Result: I shove. He snaps and says 'two-pear', river A♣ and we're good.
I don't hate the shove, It is definitely better than folding, but I don't think it achieves much. I guess we get a little more value if he's ever betting this size with a FD. But I think the min-click is almost always value and we are behind all value, and V isn't going to fold much if anything. V offered us really good odds that we can't pass up, and jamming just makes our odds worse.
can you explain why you shoved?
Why bet the flop
I overlimp preflop. Not sure what the point is of bloating the pot to a very multiway small SPR with this hand is?
I probably check back the flop this multiway against a field we likely have no FE against.
I could see barrelling the turn against nitty players (if we have a nitty image, but I'm guessing we have a banana image), but why are we attempting to get a station to fold? Or do we think our turn bet is for value? I check back. Now sigh calling the minraise as we have the immediate odds to chase our nut flush (let alone IO against a station) plus we might even have more outs. Obviously no FE so shoving would be terrible.
ETA: We had four decisions on this hand and I disagreed with every one. 😀
GcluelessNLnoobG
Yeah, I agree with Gobble on all decisions, except I would cbet the flop and go somewhat larger, because it might go through and you have ace high.
If he had a draw on the turn, he would call or shove, the minraise is almost always 2-pair or better, so just call with your combo draw.
Check flop.
Pre is a bit light given table action - a wheel combos make a lot if their ev from fold equity.
