Do you believe in God?

Craig

Sorry, but apparently my post in ordinary, comprehensible English is difficult for you to grasp given you history of posting gibberish. Since you apparently lack the ability to understand them, perhaps it was a mistake to attemp to engage with you.

But in persistence can be a virtue so I will try this one more time:

A. I NEVER questioned that Wurlitzer experienced something.
B. I have no doubt that Wurlitzer found this to be a significant experience, nor that he/she believes it was a vision of Christ.
C. Neither you, nor Wurlitzer, nor I know exactly what that experience really was or what caused it.
D. You and Wurlitzer undoubtedly believe it was a vision of Christ. I disagree. I believe there was some naturalistic cause
E. I come to that belief about that experience, and will freely admit this to be the case, based on my past experiences and prior belief.
F. By his/her own account, Wurlitzer “cried out to God” prior to this experience. I would suggest this is indicative that Wurlitzer already, at least at some level, already believed in God before this experience. Would you cry out to Vishnu or Zeus if you were feeling desperate?

Conclusion - rather than being a cause of WurlitzerÂ’s belief in God, this experience was more a confirmation of a prior belief that already existed. Just as I would interpret an experience such as this in light of my own prior belief and experience, it is natural that Wurlitzer would do likewise.

I guess if someone has what they purport to be a religious experience, anyone who thinks there is a natural explanation for it is “douchey”? Apparently being an atheist makes me a scumbag. Sorry, but I reject that notion. If you want to think I’m a douche or a scumbag, fine that’s your right, but that says a lot more about your own insecurity than it does about me. It’s ok; I won’t be making the mistake of engaging with you again.

This is a completely meaningless concession and just proves my point about you.

It doesn’t matter how much you twist yourself around, you are denying that they experienced transcendence.

I’m not a big fan of this term, but one could justifiably accuse you of gaslighting.

(1) Someone has a transcendent spiritual experience and is better off for it

(2) Said person shares about it on a spirituality subforum

(3) Skeptic tries to undermine and gaslight this person

Calling this skeptic insecure is the charitable view.

I won't be engaging you in the foreseeable future either. You are being ridiculous in my humble opinion.

addendum: I saw your next post after I posted this one. NOW I'm done with you.

And the skeptic is allowed to give their interpretation/understanding as well in a 'spirituality forum.'

For the record, I believe that Wurlitzer's experience was indeed a transcendent experience with Christ.

To be clear, their interpretation of something they have never experienced.

Women and children I will give a pass to for denying someone’s testimony of the transcendence, but any man can feel the wrath.

I’m not changing my mind on this.

I must be a glutton and I promised myself I wouldnÂ’t do this butÂ…

Did you miss my point C in my prior post. We all have our beliefs but none of us KNOWS what Wurlitzer experienced truly was or what the cause of it was. If Wurlitzer (and I infer from the account that this is the case) believes it was a vision of God, I have no objection. I am NOT trying to talk anyone out of that belief. I freely admit I am a rationalist, materialist and an atheist, so no, I don’t personally believe it was a vision of God. Whether it was “transcendent” — heck I don’t know. I have no idea how you are using that term. If it was significant and caused his/her life to change for the better in a meaningful way and that’s what you meant by transcendent, then fine. No issue with that. If you meant that it was a supernatural experience, well I just don’t believe that. Why the heck should my non belief matter to you or anyone else though?

In any case your desire to “smack down the evil, insensitive, douchebag atheist” has led you to miss the main point. I wasn’t questioning the reality of the experience but rather its role in bringing Wurlitzer to a state of belief in God. His/her story suggested that this belief existed before this experience meaning that the experience was a confirmation of belief, not the cause.

And you are lapsing into sexist douchebaggery with your comment about giving women a pass. Is it ok for a woman to question someoneÂ’s experience, and if so, why canÂ’t a man do so? And why do you assume I am a man? I checked my public profile and I donÂ’t have any gender specified. My username also is not suggestive of gender. Anyway why would it matter in the slightest? Also why do you assume I have never had any similar experiences? Is it not possible for someone to remain a rationalist if they experience something they cannot fully explain?

consciousness being born
bubbling to begin anew
like quantum foam appearing
and disappearing
we die and then appear
again
entangled forever

Yes you were, and yes you are.

Stop the lying. Go to hell.

Really disturbing to see Craig lose his last bits of sanity. All he had to do was ask for help....poor guy.

Yeah, I'm sorry if the 1st Century superstitious religions understood the spiritual nature of human consciousness about like they understood everything else. Such primitive, barbaric belief systems are an insult to the dignity of humankind. And the very natural human spirit -- not some imagined supernatural ghost element -- is the foundation for that rational, reasonable, natural, demonstrable spirituality. It is a fool who continues to cede understanding to such primitive belief systems.

What's the truth of how to practice medicine? I don't know, let's check what they believed in the 1st Century. What's the truth of cosmology? I don't know, let's check to see what they believed in the 1st Century. Where is meaning to be found in human life? I don't know, let's see what they said in the 1st Century when they were for killing unfaithful wives, unruly children, infidels, gays and witches while worshipping their god of love. Seems like a plan to me. Yeah, they had it figured out. Let me join their religion.

Note that the idea that "there is evidence for the existence of Jesus and that increases the odds that he resurrected from the dead," if applied to any of the other 100 billion or so humans that have existed, can be seen for what it is. Because the fact that my great-great-grandfather existed would also increase the chances that he resurrected from the dead.

It's a way over-the-top example of special pleading to use the idea that he may have existed historically to support the case for resurrection. It's just pure religiosity thinking run amok. As in, none of the normal rules apply ... we are talking about religion here.

Bogus on its face.

Where has your “sanity” gotten you in life?

I’m the one who is being rewarded by God.

What do you have? Social acceptance? Worthless irrelevance?

Get help. You're in a very very dark place.

I’ve been here.

The very dark place is where the treasure is hidden.

You don’t know this?

The beast gets hungry at night

Get. help.

At bottom, reality is made up of the parasite and the life giving host who is hidden.

You guys try to feed off the world, but you feel empty because the parasite has only been given so much to offer you.

Jesus Christ became one with the life giving host and dwells within every human being through the spirit.

The Christians try to feed off of the Jesus found in the churches, but they have to keep returning with growling stomachs because that Jesus is of the world and ultimately belongs to the parasite.

Still, he is a bridge to the one within.

None of you seek the life giving host within because you’re unwilling to admit the truth - that you are a child of the parasite.

You can’t admit this truth because your soul wants to protect its image and it has you on a leash like a pet.

You have to become a man and stop letting your soul, which is a child, hide from you and dictate your life. You have to become a father to your soul.

After this, you must find the self, which the soul and the parasite are trying to keep hidden from you. I don’t mean this conceptually. I mean, you must descend through the obstacles of the mind and directly relate with the self.

The spirit with the life giving host is there waiting within the self. This spirit is also the spirit of truth. As Jesus said, it will guide you to the hidden kingdom.

If you’re willing to degrade yourself and tap into your parasitical nature, then you can consume the guiding spirit, which the enemy covers in death, and navigate through the obstacles. This is what the sacred ritual of communion truly represents.

If you’re not willing to degrade yourself and consume death, then you will be left behind.

As Jesus said, when you eat what is dead, you will make it come to life. Why?

Because you are not truly a parasite. You are also a life giving host. This is the mystery of the story which has been hidden from you in God’s wisdom.

When Jesus said, “you can’t serve two masters,” do you still think he was talking about money like the baby Christians believe?

Time to grow up.

When someone tells you that you are not the center of the world, to manipulate you, know that they are speaking the words of the evil one who is the parasite.

You are the center of a world. And at the center of this world hides a kingdom.

But if you do not uncover and rescue this hidden kingdom from death, then you are death, and that will be your fate.

Yes, I literally clicked 'Like' on this post. Maybe the first time I ever 'liked' one of your posts.

I sincerely encourage you to:
1. Find psychiatric help.
2. Abandon your heretical novelty theology/vague gnosticism.

For real, man. God bless and keep you.
On your point on communion - remember that many departed from Jesus due to His teachings on the Eucharist.
But He tells us truly; it is real food and real drink.

People have tried to come up with explanations for the Eucharist for millenia - because few are willing to accept his teaching on face value; that he truly meant what he said.

I encourage you to continue to act as if the Holy Spirit is actually in the crackers given to you at mass.

I truly do encourage this.

Still, although many will be left behind, the story will move forward.

Also, how many wafers do you need to consume, how many times must you take communion, before the covenant is established and Christ dwells within you?

The priest will never give you permission to tell yourself that communion with Christ is complete, as they need to retain their numbers.

You have to give yourself permission. You decide.

*At some point, the child must stop feeding off the breast. Otherwise, that child will never grow up and give life to others.