Playing big pockets with a overcard on the flop
Just a general micro question about playing premium pairs when the flop brings an over card. Had it happen twice this last session.
Hand #1
I have QQ and button raises, I 3 bet. Flop brings a King. I put out a half pot bet and get called. I know this player and am fairly certain they have a King when they called. I fire 2 more bullets the same size into blanks and get called down with AK. Not even sure there was anyway to win that hand
Hand #2
I have TT in MP, fire off 4 BBs as a bet. Get 2 callers. Board brings a J, I fire off a bet. Get one caller, turn is an A, I check and give up on the river to a pot bet. Again, familiar reg for me that is definitely going to (A) chase his ace, and/or (B) call down with a decent top pair.
Do people generally C-bet with premium pairs when an over card hits? Just looking for some general thoughts on these types of situations. I'm pretty tight so my table image with regs is that of premium hands. Doesn't matter at micro anyway but regs know I have something but hardly ever hold. So not sure what avenue to take here
Thanks
5 Replies
H1 flop seems ok (but bet smaller 20-33%).. rest of hand doesn't make sense you are turning a good hand into a bluff effectively.
H2 do you mean you opened 4bb? unless table is very weak/loose that's too big, stick to 2-3bb. Because multiway better to just bet value and check showdown value hands like you had in this situation.
In hand 1 your analysis and your actions don’t match well. You said you were pretty sure villain had a king. Why are you firing two additional barrels with QQ if that’s the case? Was there a draw on the board you could represent? If not, did you really think you’d get villain to fold top pair n that spot?
It seems you have an issue with letting go of premium preflop holdings. Getting QQ pre is NOT a guaranteed win. You must recognize spots like the one you described and let it go. There indeed was no way you were going to win that hand, but that’s ok. You aren’t supposed to win every time you have a premium starting hand.
In hand 1 your analysis and your actions don’t match well. You said you were pretty sure villain had a king. Why are you firing two additional barrels with QQ if that’s the case? Was there a draw on the board you could represent? If not, did you really think you’d get villain to fold top pair n that spot? It seems you have an issue with letting go of premium preflop holdings. G
I agree it wasn't the smartest play. At micro on global, you can get some folds with 3 barrels into just about anything and I have played hours with this player. He will chase draws and sometimes lay down top pair/mid kicker. This was a bad play. I am pretty tight compared to what you find at this stake for this site so me having AK would be something this guy would for sure put me on. It was not the best angle but its what I thought I could represent, just turned out he had AK, his calling range is any paint suited for the most part. So K 10 off and stuff like that were definitely on my mind. It's why I posted, I was just butt-hurt that I couldn't get paid off for my premium hand. I was card dead and had already folded 10s twice on the flop.
Thanks for the input. I just need a quick-check sometimes to see if I'm playing bad or tilting or whatever. I've been on a major downswing overall. Super card dead over the last 15 hours of play or I have situations where even decent cards/positions are getting priced out or put into situations war worse than listed above. I'm still up for the most part over the last 2 weeks but its minimal and its been a STRUGGLE. We will see what tonight brings. Thanks again.
#1 - It's always tough, but we all need to learn how to deal with those situations. The answer is: you need to develop a x/c range. Your c-betting range might a bit more polarized (very strong hands and bluffs, draws, backdoors), while x/c range can be good TP (like KQ, KJ) and some under pairs (QQ-99), you may want to throw in some monsters as well if you think Villain is super stabby.
Another way to play is to c-bet small and invite some floats, then play x/c and hope they won't third barrel you on the river. But either way, barreling an underpair seems like a waste.
A good bet is a bet that:
- folds out better hands
- keeps worse hands in the pot
This one seems to do exactly the opposite:
- it folds out hands that your QQ beats (like worse pairs, 2nd pairs to the board, say it's K94 and he has A9s, T9s, 98s or other floats)
- it keeps Kx and other hands like Axs with a flushdraw that have good equity against your QQ
A good bet would be some combo draw with blockers, which has some equity, but is beaten by any pair (say 75% vs 25%). Denying opponent's equity where his share is much bigger is a massive win.
#2
You need to be way more careful with c-betting in multiway pots, as now the MDF (minimum defence frequency) is split into two players instead of one, so if you fire 2/3 bet they need to defend 60% of the time - collectively, not all of them. So in reality each of them has to fold 77.5%+ of the time for you to show the profit (0.77^2 = 0.6). They only have to have is 22.5% percent of the time. Even with an overpair on a board like 9xx you need to be very careful, your hand is no good for more than 2 streets of value on an already bloated pot.
#1 - It's always tough, but we all need to learn how to deal with those situations. The answer is: you need to develop a x/c range. Your c-betting range might a bit more polarized (very strong hands and bluffs, draws, backdoors), while x/c range can be good TP (like KQ, KJ) and some under pairs (QQ-99), you may want to throw in some monsters as well if you think Villain is supe
Thank you for this...I appreciate the input and I definitely need to work on several areas of my game that you have pointed out.