Playing AA 400bb deep

Why are you checking the turn? A lot of our value comes when he has AQ/KQ here and we get potentially 3 streets of value - really big mistake imo to check the turn. As played on the river it looks like he's going for a value bet with say AQ maybe KQ - I'd consider raising.

We should be threatening stacks with such a strong hand on a dry board. Bet fold flop, bet fold turn. By the river we should have built the pot enough where we can jam for value.

As played this looks like a weak value bet from the hand we should have stacked, AQ. I would 3x raise to 225 and fold to a jam.

bet the turn to get value from Qx. $150 looks good. then bet $200 on the river. disagree about stacking Qx on the river unless you have a loose aggressive image. im guessing you dont if you cant 3 barrel AA here.

as played raise fold the river small.

Bet the turn. This is such a dry board and so little to be "scared" of. You want to get value from QX, other pairs, etc.

As played, it's tempting to click-back the river, but I don't really see the point. Not much he can call w/ and if he raises as a bluff, although rare, that would suck. Although I don't mind a raise to get a sigh call from a Q. In game I probably just call, see his hand first to get info, then show to win or muck if he somehow has you beat.

Thanks for the thoughts. I'm trying to get more comfortable playing with deep stacks and these strong one-pair hands feel tricky. Interested in any heuristics for playing overpairs/TPTK +200bb deep? Maybe I need to just start with a simple bet/fold strategy for three streets, sizing appropriately for what kind of hands I'm targeting.

After my 3b, we are left with an SPR of 8 against a capable opponent and a flop of Q83r.

If V flats my 3b w/ QQ (and say 1/3 the time w/ KK?), he has -
9 sets in his range
2 combos of KK?
6 AQ combos
12 KQ combos
3 QJs combos
18 combos of 99 - JJ

He'd stack off with the sets of course, perhaps KK, and maybe-possibly-who knows AQ - so there's slightly more scenarios in which I value-town myself going bet/bet/bet.

Although maybe the fact that sets will put in a x/r on the flop or turn at some frequency makes the hands he shows up with that I beat in the bet/bet/bet line outnumber the hands I lose to?

My expectation was that he wouldn't often stack off w/ KQ or QJ. So I put those hands in the '2 streets of value' category.

JJ - 99, I will get at least one street, and give myself the chance for two streets if I use a bet/check/bet line.

So I was just thinking that most of what I was targeting was 2 streets of value type hands which led to me checking back the turn.

Looking for advice on how to think about / analyze these spots in general. Typing all this out in itself has been helpful, though!

Result:

It's your money. Most of the people whining about people being too nitty are watching garbage streams where its just stupid people with money playing. YOU made that money, provided you don't break rules, YOU can bet how you want short.

My advice is aces post flop its often better to just hold on and call. Don't go overboard with re raises.

Personally, on the turn here I'd bet. You haven't seen aggression from him. There's lots of queens out there that wil pay you off. Of course, not a horrible move with what you did. He might have nothing.

Basically if he has a queen, you missed value. If he has 2p or above, you lost the minimum and if he has air, you got the maximum.

You DO need to be able to fold them. You'll see OMC's grumble all night about their aces being cracked when they were called, raised and raised and lose a big pot. Brings a smile to my face.

I think you played it ok bro. Deep stacks basically turn 1-pair hands into medium strength hands. People don’t blast 3 streets with worse at 1/2 very often. You prob saved yourself from some gross spots by not building a huge pot. River sizing is whatever, easy call after pot control.

just Bet/fold turn - and i'm betting or checking river depending on how I feel about the situation because that is not a great card. People in these games won't turn draws into bluffs often, so you can safely just keep betting.

These kinds of thing are player/game dependent. It's good to understand the other implications of these norms. For example, maybe V will not stack off with a good queen here. Then you shouldn't play for stacks, but you should realize you can bluff him in big pots.

You could raise a little more pre because of the depth. You are denying his odds to outflop you, and also to bluff you post. The hand also becomes easier to play with lower SPR, and it becomes tougher for him to fold worse overpairs.

For similar reasons, you could bet the flop pretty big. Very few people will fold a q for any reasonable size. Some people will hang on for 1 street with any pair. Hands like AK and JT are probably done unless you bet very small, and it can be problematic to let hands like JT see a super cheap turn. I think you get called by pairs bellow q often enough to bet $60. You could have AK. You might not 3! AQ or KQ. Moreover, people just feel like it's too wimpy to fold something like TT too easily here.

I'd bet the turn.

Obviously, V played this hand very poorly. It's not unusual for Vs to be afraid to put a lot of money in without the nuts.

AA is definitely strong enough to go b/b/b understanding that when you run into resistance it probably isn't good. I disagree with those suggesting you try playing for stacks - in an 800bb pot, AA is usually no good. But you should be perfectly happy putting in 100-150 bb over three streets and expect to be called down by TPGK a lot.

I'm likely going for three streets, but probably not sizing up to play for stacks. In theory you could, but smaller stakes opponents will tend to overfold hands you're ahead of and you just end up value-owning yourself when you're beat.

A couple things to think about:

1. SPR going to the flop is more relevant than the number of big blinds. Due to the large initial bet size the SPR is reduced somewhat. You're still deep, but it's more like a 200 BB deep 3-bet pot than a 400 bb deep one.

2. You mentioned hands that your opponents could call with were only 2-street hands, but I think this is the wrong way to think about things. When you're betting with the top of your range you should typically be representing a very strong hand or a bluff. If you're bluffing often enough your opponent could potentially bluff catch and call down with any hand that can beat a bluff.

However, as ES2 said these things are ultimately game and player dependent.

Turn is a mandatory bet this deep. River is definitely a raise for value.

Preflop: Can 3bet a little bigger this deep, unless you are 3betting or folding. Targeting exactly this kind of "any pair for any amount" auto calls.

Flop/turn: Would try to implement GTO badly and bet less on the flop 25-35, and then 1.5-2.5x pot turn.

River is weird, would want reads on V to be raising ... feels like a spot where he folds a lot of worse hands if we raise, but calls pretty much all better hands and we are forced to fold if he 3bets.

On the upside you can laugh in his face for winning pretty much the minimum in almost the perfect dream spot for his garbage any pair for any amount.

Appreciate all the votes for - definitely worth 3 streets of value, but probably not looking to play for stacks 400bb deep so size accordingly, and I obviously need to reevaluate if I'm raised at any point (x/r turn or x/r river is a pretty insta-muck vs. most all low-stakes opp, as is a x/r on flop coupled with a big turn bet into me).

I think I played this too cautiously b/c I was afraid of getting x/raised and put in a tough spot. This is a tendency/leak I've noticed - playing in a way that is fearful of being put in a difficult spot and not knowing what to do. I've started to get more comfortable playing big pots, but tend to choose more conservative/passive lines when I'm a little uncomfortable. I'm happy to get the feedback I got here, thanks!

I like this and have been sizing up on the flop at times as an exploit against folks who are inelastic on the flop with any pair or weak draw. I decided to do a mild version of the whole "size down in 3b pots" line. But I agree, I'll often get called by TT here for one street regardless of if I bet $40 or $75, and all Q's are calling no matter what.

Thanks for the feedback, I had no history with villain so no idea if he thought I'd be under or over bluffing, but that makes sense to look at this spot as just trying to get max value out of KK, AQ or KQ rather than targeting all his hands that would just call 2 streets. If I had AQ instead of AA, maybe then targeting the 2-street hands starts to make more sense.

What is the idea behind these small flop, then turn overbets? I get that betting small on the Flop keeps their range wide, but then I end up getting so many folds on the Turn when I size up. That's great when I'm bluffing/semi-bluffing, but it feels like I'm losing value when I have the goods...

What's the % of the time you've fat value in these situations with a big OP, and which are the times you're semi-bluffing? (This assumes you have other things besides the QQ+/AK nit raise range.)

AP, I honestly don't hate the 3!ip, b40 cbet on Q83r, x-back, bluff catch line. You don't know this V, and you didn't hit. Pot control is fine. You want to learn more about this opponent before you want to stick 400bb in with even the Bestest Pair.

PRE - might go a tad larger with the 3B when we're this deep and it's late position vs late position. Also like going larger if V seems to be good action.

FLOP - here again, I might size up a bit with the c-bet. At least half pot. Might go even larger, like 2/3 pot.

TURN - I'd pot it, at least. Might even go 1.5x pot. Checking back doesn't make sense. If V has a better hand, we'll find out here and now.

RIVER - definitely not folding. Probably raise-folding for value. V's less than 1/2 pot sizing after we check back the turn looks like he's blocking with some thin value that might get curious enough to call if we make it $300.

Feels like we left a good bit of money on the table.