What do you take away from this?

H folds to "He's deepish. but has played every hand quite passively and has limped and called a bit pre," V who has now 4! you for the first time. V1 is totally irrelevant to this analysis.

What do you think V2's range is, and do you think you're deep enough to have good IO for your suited Broadway? You also don't know if V2 is weak in addition to being passive.

Deeper, better reads, less dominated hand; OK, maybe. Also, do you think V1 has 'call-backraise' in his quiver?

Easy fold pre vs a passive fish’s 4bet (esp not closing the action). KK hand vs V1 seems like a much more interesting spot.

The TAG cold caller makes it kind of moot, both because they’ll cause problems for you with their JJ/AQs type stuff and they protect your action.

If it were heads up, I wouldn’t as a standard r/f to

But again, it’s all moot with a non-fish CCer in the mix.

Min open then 4b is so nutted. Easy fold.

Against a loose-passive player opening from EP I might even just call the first time with AJs. That hand is worth taking a flop with. (Obviously fold now.)

3b preflop completely standard, I would also give consideration to mixing in flats 150BB deep CO v HJ w/ AJs, keep in weaker hands that we are ahead of and getting 4b not that ideal. Additionally having balanced stronger flats here against a BTN pro is helpful as he will find squeezing hands that we dominate in the HJ open, CO flat line - such as KJs/QJs/weaker Axs.

If we assume the BTN is not completely trolling around because he feels he can outplay the pants off these players postflop (which he may trolling to be fair given he is playing a hand as cold calling a 3b) I would assign the CC range something along the lines of large portion of medium PP up to JJ and strong Axs, possibly AQo.

As played I would be folding vs the 4bet, you are somewhat protected after the BTN CC flat in the sense HJ cannot be going too wide for the 4b - and in live poker smaller stakes there are significantly less 4b bluffs than in theory.

Why did you bet the turn with KK? I’m checking that flop and if not then check turn. He’s playing peanut stakes let him blast off.

Honestly not sure if SB should just never post reads on players ... pretty much every objective piece of info. about V1 suggests he's young and doesn't care about the money, and both are his main poker skills. Playing way too wide and bluffing too much in weird spots, but is running well so "cleaning up".

Not 100% sure at HS but I'd guess it's something like 90% of people wearing poker stuff at 1-2/2-5 are fish, and the rest are break even-ish (or at best were above average 15+ years ago). Only clothing tell that's a bigger indicator of general cluelessness is wearing shades.

Also in the given HH V is repping what? TT makes a lot of sense on flop/river, JT or KQ maybe depending on bet sizes ... but even QT or 8x seem pretty weird given the HH info.

Result: I fold, V1 calls the 4-bet with AKcc, V2 has 44. Board is K-7-7-J-6 and V2 triple barrels off in position, V1 check calls down and wins.

Agree with others that V1 isn't as relevant as V2's 4B.

Think you made a good fold pre, regardless of the reveal. V1 could have us dominated, but V2 will often have us crushed. It'll be very difficult to realize our equity post when we're sandwiched between these two V's.

Yeah, sometimes the fish shows something surprising given the action. But consider that even if you had continued by calling pre, you likely would have folded on the flop anyway.

If V2 wants to go down swinging with all his PP's, we're better off just getting out of his way with our marginal holdings, which is what AJs is.

44 is just a little outside my perception of V2's range...Jesus.

I love your posts Banana, but (There's always a "But,") I'm tempted to ditch your reads and go "Generic 1/3 player or reg," from now on. 44 4! is even out of my wheelhouse, and I like low PPs more than most of you. Guess V1 was really confident in his top pair.

Interesting V2 triple barrels down such board.
I think V1 flatting with AK kind of makes sense if he got reads on v2 and you.

Either way, our hand was very easy fold to the 4bet, it's not like we can find the 5bet jam or calling vs a range that might have us dominated.

So after this hand was played, I don't think I'd want to 3bet a linear range vs v2 that much since he might just spew it off with random aggression. Unless we are ready to 3bet/5bet jam light vs v2.

The line between genius and random "I have AK and can't fold pre. or when I hit TPTK on the dry flop" is pretty slim here.

Although to be fair, esp. after the "table talk" before he cold called the 3bet I think it's very difficult to fold postflop when you hit.

Saying that, when I look at weighted ranges in PPT ... Assuming V2 takes this line with AA/KK 100% of the time, he needs to be taking this line with 44-99 over 13% of the time (at 13% of the time V1 is almost perfectly flipping _on the flop_). It also gets a lot worse if V2 thinks 99/88 are too good to play this way, where even 33-77 have to be doing this 20%+ of the time.

Almost certainly better to cold 4bet, and not say stupid things, but it's better to run good than be good.

Speaking only for myself, I like trying to figure out how SB's reads will turn out to be a complete misdirection from the eventual reveal. It may be the best thing about his hand histories.

This but unironically. The amount of EV to be gained by appropriately picking spots to fold TPTK on a dry board in a low SPR pot is microscopic compared to the catastrophic folds some people make.

Point taken on preflop and speech play, though a double cold calling strat that contains AKs is probably less dumb than your average double cold calling range, so he's not getting dinged any extra points from me post reveal. I don't even hate the hole card / speech combination; it's not like anyone here clocked hero as being cooked because of it.

But yeah, guy sitting at a 1/3NL table in Hard Rock Nebraska or wherever TF SB plays isn't secretly bencb, news at 11.

Sorry if this came off as disrespectful to our heartland.

To be clear, the joke is:

1) bencb is European. America is a flyover country as far as poker is concerned.

2) Doing anything at a Hard Rock franchise besides buying a T-shirt to commemorate a shitty dinner you had in some city you regret visiting is funny. Seeing a concert at a Hard Rock Cafe is funny. Winning a poker tournament at a Hard Rock Casino is funny. Losing your virginity in a Hard Rock establishment is funny. Denying any of this is futile.

When the flush draw misses the river and someone rips it, you got to be thinking bluff. Also, there’s not enough info - you said he bet huge - but often you get priced in on the river and it’s a mathematical error to fold, especially against a young hotshot. I tend to see this type try to run one by me as the old man target. If the guy is cleaning up, he’s bluffing often and this is certainly a good situation for it.

However, we all do this from time to time and not being bothered by being bluffed is a superpower. Play on….
People terribly bothered by this should leave and come back tomorrow before they tilt a bad decision.
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Again the positions are unclear, but 3bet isolating a raiser is not such a good move against this villain. Passive guy bets equals red flags. I’m probably just calling in position. As played, fold to 4Bet.

What do you think a deep, passive-tight player's range is when they open/4!? Even from the HJ? That was the read. Maybe JJ+/AK? Usually, isn't it KK+? And then they triple-barrel as they empty the clip on K77J6?! This is AA like always.

V1 had to either have a drastically different read than we were given, or was very optimistic in hoping for a chop.

Well, it’s a knotty hypothetical because 1) clearly they had a different read than OP, 2) clearly that read was better, and 3) I don’t love played preflop even if their read was right.

All that being said, if stacking off with TPTK on a dry board is a losing play at this SPR, then you generally shouldn’t call pre.

Exceptions exist and I’ve made folds myself in similar spots, but the odds that any given spot is a correct one to fold is low, and more importantly, the amount of EV to be saved finding the rare folds is low compared to the EV lost when you fold just cause you’re on winner’s tilt or whatever. (FWIW I have sometimes been shown the bluff when I’ve managed to make the fold myself lol)

I think playing 25 hand per hour poker makes you overly attuned to not losing your stack because doing so almost certainly ensures you’ll have a losing session. Playing good poker means getting stacked a lot more than most people realize lol.