KQs OOP and awkward

I guess I can understand why we wimped out with what I'm assuming was a LRR plan against a passive positionally aware solid raise here, especially this deep (i.e. at my shorter $200 stack I would lean to a jam preflop with this amount of dead money).

I guess for this price we have to call the flop.

Turn really depends on how often the fish is going to go broke with 3x. If he won't, I don't hate flatting to bring along the Villain.

Think I probably donk the fish shorter stack on the river.

Gthinkthehandiskindaoksofar?G

Preflop seems fine. Better to limp, as you know he is raising, and you don't want him to 3!. Could 3! representing KK+.

Bet or raise turn. Flat of 1/7 pot turn bet is bad.

Pre-flop is OK vs. this guy's open from BB. I might put in a raise on the turn vs. that sizing. We need to get a little money in the pot.

Bet $100 on the river and pray they can't fold AA/KK/X3.

Result: Tragedy strikes as I check river thinking one of these guys will have a PP and strong enough to bet given the weak action...checks through and I win

Yikes at this thinking, imo. No pair is betting a double paired board, especially multiway; heck, even a 3x is happily checking back most of the time. And meanwhile the bluffing frequency plummets in multiway pots, especially when there are no busted draws to do so with.

GgohomeBanana,you'redrunk,imoG

Seems like that would actually be a valid reason to stab.

This is exactly the sort of live read that makes people here criticize your live reads. I can't get past the first sentence without being confused by the contradiction between "quasi-tag fish that kind of plays aggressively sometimes" and "but generally plays loose passive". Adding that his betting range is fairly tight and he's positionally aware doesn't help clarify very much.

Haven't even gotten to the hand yet, and I already want to suggest you go home, Banana, because you're drunk.

I can't even.

You were thinking about limp-raising? With KQs? Don't do that. It's strong enough to open, but nowhere near strong enough to want to turn it into a limp-3B bluff.

As played, it's fine to flat call. We might have some worse hands dominated, and better to not bloat the pot when we'll be OOP and multi-way.

This hand is already off the rails. Can't wait to see what happens next...

The check is fine.

I wouldn't hate a small donk when we have TP2K on a two-flush, paired board, where our opponents aren't likely to have many better hands, but could have a ton of flush draws.

When V bets small, on this board, and BTN calls, I really, really, really, really want to raise this up. There's no way V is using 1/4 pot sizing with AQ+, on this board, multi-way. If he is, your read is wrong (which wouldn't be altogether shocking, honestly).

Wut? Jesus, no.

Donk. Just start betting. This is going to check through SOOOOOOOO much. Bet something like $50 or $60. Pray someone raises.

As played, when V checks and BTN calls...I still really want to raise, even if it's just a min-click, but what I really want to do is raise to like $100, half pot, and hope someone thinks we're FOS.

Fake tank about ten seconds, then jam.

There's not much point in taking bad-reg sizing of 2/3 pot, or trying to be cute and betting small to induce. If anyone has TT, JJ, a 3, or a 9 here, they'll call. Hell, 88 might call. AX might call.

Your line looks FOS. I'd seriously consider calling with any 9x or better.

OMFG

If we jam we might get hero folds from hands that can call. I would donk river for like 100 and hope to get a crying call or maybe one of them has a 3.

If we jam and they fold a 3 that would be a disaster.

On the double paired board and an SPR of less than 1 I think you can jam and get called by A high at a reasonable frequency.

That's fair.

My thinking is that if we donk here it's going to be hard to get called by very many hands. A small size especially looks like we can't be bluffing. I'd think even bad rec-fish can find a fold with A3 when the bet looks milky.

But if we suddenly wake up and bet large, after just limping pre and check-calling two streets, on this board, facing smallish bets, it could look FOS, like we're leveraging V's turn check and BTN's small bet size, both of which look weak, and just trying to steal the pot.

There's a non-zero percent chance we get hero'd by 3X, AX, or 9x, and maybe occasionally someone makes an insane fold with Qx because they level themselves into thinking we must have 33 when we limp in from the SB and take this line.

I just think a small bet that gets called at some moderate frequency doesn't make as much money long term as a ridiculously huge bet that gets hero called by worse or folds a chop at some low frequency. And we don't get many opportunities to make this sort of free-rolling type of play from OOP.

Sometimes the fish outplay the good players, because they bet when they have a strong hand. They don’t dink around trying to keep this guy in or trying to induce a bet, they bet big with big hands.

I want to understand, but I can’t grasp playing this hand so passively. Raise the flop, bet the turn, shove the river.

If villain folds along the way (and that will happen often) it’s still the way to go, because you stack him when he has a little something.

People win little pots trying not to run off anyone, but the big pots go to those that bet their value.

Holy ****, bet your goddamn hand.

Yup. Raise pre. Bet flop. Bet turn. Bet river. This passive strategy is so bad and just leads to too many vague scenarios.

As played you need to bet big at least $175 imo. The problem is it turns your hand face up because you played so passively until now. Bet your hand earlier and you can build a bigger pot and set up for stacks while also not being so face up. It’s not that complicated.

Btw I hate just flatting SB/BB against button straddle with strong hands. Just come in with a big raise to try and get HU and you will be in a much more clear spot post flop. Look what happened here. You limp/called KQs OOP. This is not good/aggressive poker. People can try to argue for playing passively from blinds vs button straddle all they want. Look where it gets you. Don’t want to limp-raise KQs OOP? I don’t. That’s pretty bad imo. Just open the damn pot the first time!

Yeah, I don't understand. You post all these wild bluffs. Then when you have a big hand, you don't bet it. 1/3 players are generally sticky, so hard to bluff but will pay off. You seem to want to slow play all your big hands.

Would you guys have 3-bet pre? V in EP 500$, MP 300$ (I think), BTN 300$, H 500$ in blinds.. what would you make it? 150?

Setting aside the BB tell of reaching for his chips, I'd mostly open KQs for a raise, not limp in with it.

I don't think we should be limp-3B'ing with KQs, generally. It's a strong starting hand, but not strong enough to continue if we get 4B. Even if we just get called, it'll be harder to play from OOP with a lower SPR, and our TP hands could potentially be dominated.

As played, when V opens and gets two callers, back-raising becomes an interesting option, but the stack depth makes it hard. We'd need to make it at least $150, which pot commits us to calling off if someone jams on us.

So, at that point, no, I don't think we should raise, at least not less than all in.

One option is to flat call with the best relative position to the PFR, and a fairly under-repped hand, with a plan to fast play if we flop thick value.

That said, the BTN straddle makes our back-raise from the SB more credible, and our hand does have some nice blocker properties. If we think our opponents are VPIP'ing too wide, and they'll over-fold to a back-jam, the other option is just ripping it in when it gets back to us pre, expecting everyone to fold most of the time.

IMO, limp/call was better than open if you knew he would raise.

3! looks strong and limp/3! looks stronger, so I don't mind a 3!. This hand hits almost half the flop some way. With low SPR, you could gii with a draw sometimes representing AA/KK.