The Democratic Party's Slide Into Irrelevance
Attaching a poll ... Dems unfavorability rating increased from 45% to 57% during the Biden Administration.
I agree. That's basically the bedrock of modern society. But that doesn't mean every job in society must provide those wages.
It kinda does, that's what "minimum wage" means. It means every job must pay more than the minimum.
What you’re doing is taking a static snapshot of low-wage employment and treating it as if that's some person’s entire life.
I'm saying that someone who works full time shouldn't have to go into debt to live in America with a basic level of dignity. Incredibly, you're pushing back on this idea. How do you imagine the economy is even going to work if no one can afford to live off a basic service industry job?
It kinda does, that's what "minimum wage" means. It means every job must pay more than the minimum. I'm saying that someone who works full time shouldn't have to go into debt to live in America with a basic level of dignity. Incredibly, you're pushing back on this idea. How do you imagine the economy is even going to work if no one can afford to live off a basic service industr
You're trying to reason with cognitive dissonance.
lol, there is absolutely a moral principle that people should be able to earn a reasonable living in exchange for honest labor. There's no moral principle that companies should be entitled to sub-cost labor.
Yes, but the moral principle needs to actually lead to better results for said people. Raising min wages to say 30 bucks an hour + a magical gift of keeping employment levels the same (which can't happen) would further exacerbate the homeless problem and rent prices. They jacked up wages, and rent jacked up with it.
I understand that you're making a generic macro suggestion to help people but it would behoove us all to focus directly on housing the homeless, building more homes, changing laws that prevent said things from happening and so forth than literally discussing an option from a point of morality that goes against what those people are trying to accomplish. We created this housing problem.
The sinister words of UBI solves this much better than cranking up the min wages more
My version of UBI.
It's not cash. It's food and shelter.
Everyone gets to pick a job which society needs. Health care worker. Teacher. Street cleaner. Bus driver. Cook in a community kitchen. Plumber. Electrician. Chauffeur in world in which not everyone needs their own car.
Make a world in which the central theme is to care about each other's well being, not to accumulate the biggest personal hoard which only benefits ourselves and isolates us from a big segment of the population socially. A world in which we don't need gated communities to keep the riff raff out.
People cling to money like Gollum clung to the ring in Lord of the Rings. It makes walls between people because they have to protect their "precious". It is a recurring societal disease when the money gets too concentrated in the hands of too few. That is the seeds for a revolution.
Look how the public is turning on Trump so quickly. They are feeling the pain of an ideology which is indifferent to their experience. Capitalism doesn't have an HR dept. It is only a testimony to the gravitational force of money.
The public confidence in Congress and the media is anemic. There is a very small class of obliviously bubbled off people who think things are going well. The ghost of Marie Antoinette is lurking.
My version of UBI. It's not cash. It's food and shelter. Everyone gets to pick a job which society needs. Health care worker. Teacher. Street cleaner. Bus driver. Cook in a community kitchen. Plumber. Electrician. Chauffeur in world in which not everyone needs their own car. Make a world in which the central theme is to care about each other's well being, not to accumulate the
Well you had me up to the point to where the state supplies jobs for "shelter" not cash. With that work meeting the demands of your preferred enterprise. We are back to slave work again and a bog standard communist regime. But it's all preferences with an added cherry on top for looks.
But yes, payments towards housing costs and food would help better. Which is what we have been leading into already.
Well you had me up to the point to where the state supplies jobs for "shelter" not cash. With that work meeting the demands of your preferred enterprise. We are back to slave work again and a bog standard communist regime. But it's all preferences with an added cherry on top for looks.But yes, payments towards housing costs and food would help better. Which is what we have
Bog standard is all relative. I'm not thinking of getting rid of hospitals or universities. I'm thinking of getting rid of Fritos and Coca-Cola. I'm thinking of communities where people share healthy meals together instead of eating frozen pizza alone at home.
It might not be what you envision as optimal, but it beats a full blown climate apocalypse. Trust me ..... that overturning ocean circulation stops ...... and you're going to be first in line with a pitchfork calling for the heads of the people who let that **** happen. That current hasn't stopped in 13,000 years. You have no idea how consequential would be.
Bog standard is all relative. I'm not thinking of getting rid of hospitals or universities. I'm thinking of getting rid of Fritos and Coca-Cola. I'm thinking of communities where people share healthy meals together instead of eating frozen pizza alone at home. It might not be what you envision as optimal, but it beats a full blown climate apocalypse. Trust me ..... that overtur
If only there was some sort of market where we could bet on this not happening.
Bog standard is all relative. I'm not thinking of getting rid of hospitals or universities. I'm thinking of getting rid of Fritos and Coca-Cola. I'm thinking of communities where people share healthy meals together instead of eating frozen pizza alone at home. It might not be what you envision as optimal, but it beats a full blown climate apocalypse. Trust me ..... that overtur
I think you've stated pretty accurately several times what it is that you want to do. It really isn't about coke and fritos.
We've already discussed ways that other countries have attacked climate issues better than any other in the world but it just doesn't scratch that specific itch for you, so you don't give a ****. The climate is just an excuse because if it were solved tomorrow that underlying drive to direct other people’s lives wouldn’t go away. You'd just extend that concern to something else and repeat. But, you're definitely not alone here with people who do that.
And even if we take Trolly’s good‑faith moral angle, you still haven’t proposed anything remotely workable, or scalable, or politically passable to achieve those goals of yours, which is supposed to be the entire point if we were to want to actually solve this in good faith. But even that doesn’t seem to matter to you, because you're bloated with power.
The climate is just an excuse because if it were solved tomorrow that underlying drive to direct other people’s lives wouldn’t go away. You'd just extend that concern to something else and repeat. But, you're definitely not alone here with people who do that.And even if we take Trolly’s good‑faith moral angle, you still haven’t proposed anything remotely workable, or
Think about it from the perspective of a parent. Your kid has a self-destructive addiction. The underlying desire to protect a child from themselves is never meant to go away. I don't consider it a positive attribute to stop caring about people.
That's my attitude toward humanity. I care and I'm not ashamed about it.
We had an ideology that served us humans well for a long time. We have learned a great deal and we live longer than we did for most of our history. The old ideology deserves a lot of credit for historical advances. But sometimes, ideologies become obsolete when we run out of resources to exploit for further growth. The planet will only yield so much my friend .... it isn't infinitely expandable.
It's time to shift. I don't really care about controlling what people do ...... it's more about what they don't do ...... and that includes ignoring the environmental consequences of their actions. I want to make sure that doesn't continue.
That's the whole argument in a nutshell. The freedom to pollute.
I'm against and you are apparently for it.
That's the whole argument in a nutshell. The freedom to pollute.
I'm against and you are apparently for it.
Sure, but If I take your suggestions in good fath, it wouldnt be very tough to come up with a better solution than forced labor so we can take down fritos and to trust your skills that folks will have a place to live. How were you going to do that again?
But again, it isn't the pollution part that you hate.
Sure, but If I take your suggestions in good fath, it wouldnt be very tough to come up with a better solution than forced labor so we can take down fritos and to trust your skills that folks will have a place to live. How were you going to do that again?
It's not too complicated.
Look at the US military. It manages to feed and house the troops. No one bats an eye about their ability to do that. They have gyms. They have education. They have free time to pursue other interests. Read a book. Play a guitar. Make some art. Find a girl or boy friend.
They teach team work in the military. Comraderie. It's not so terrible.
We run the world the same way ..... except we don't make the emphasis about defending ourselves against other humans and preparing to kill them.
We make the emphasis on environment, education and good health.
Imagine (Ultimate Mix)
Song by
John Lennon
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us, only sky
Imagine all the people, living for today (ah)
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people, living life in peace (yoo-hoo)
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people, sharing all the world (yoo-hoo)
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
It's not too complicated. Look at the US military. It manages to feed and house the troops. No one bats an eye about their ability to do that. They have gyms. They have education. They have free time to pursue other interests. Read a book. Play a guitar. Make some art. Find a girl or boy friend. They teach team work in the military. Comraderie. It's not so terrible. We run the
Sounds like a good idea. Can you expand a bit on this?
You can't handle the reality that it is.
We have zoomed in to the epicenter of this entire conversation and shined a spotlight on its essence.
It's like that Jack Nicholson character Colonel Jessup said in A Few Good Men .... "you can't handle the truth".
Dr. Seuss captured the essence of the environmental situation with The Lorax in 1971.
"Nothing is going to get better, it's not,
Unless some like you cares a whole awful lot"
Between you and I formula72 ...... you're not the one who cares a lot. Take a good look in the mirror and that person you see ...... doesn't care. That's your cross to bear. Not mine.
What would you like expanded ?
It already exists. We simply change the objective from one which is tribally oriented (national tribe vs national tribe) to one in which we embrace a single global tribe working cooperatively.
We have to let go of the Machiavellian divide and conquer messaging which the elites pump into us 24 * 7.
You can't handle the reality that it is.
We have zoomed in to the epicenter of this entire conversation and shined a spotlight on its essence.
It's like that Jack Nicholson character Colonel Jessup said in A Few Good Men .... "you can't handle the truth".
You literally just advocated for a world prison to handle this reality.
People would rather flee or just kill themselves than live in this fabricated nightmare under your thumb.
But you'll allow us to color and read a book or play a guitar. Or find a boyfriend.
One of the things a typical climate doomer would not acknowledge is that human civilization would also be screwed if we simply waited for natural cycles to take us back to an ice age.
We need a Manhattan Project level of dedication to figure out how to help human civilization navigate through natural cycles.
Too hot is no good. Too cold is no good. We need the Goldilocks Project to get it just right.
Bezos and Musk have their contingency plan. Take a group of privileged people to live in space stations while **** goes nuts here on Earth.
You literally just advocated for a world prison to handle this reality.
People would rather flee or just kill themselves than live in this fabricated nightmare under your thumb.
But you'll allow us to color and read a book or play a guitar. Or find a boyfriend.
It wouldn't be a prison. People could join the unit of their choice. Lots of cool work to choose from. You could teach kids or be a park ranger. Or do both.
A great way to see the world.
Imagine ..... everywhere in the world you went, people would treat you like family. Because that's what we all are. We all have a common origin.
It would be a prison for the weapons manufacturers ...... no longer free to imagine all the different ways to kill each other and bring those ideas to fruition.
Personally, I'd rather live. But if the idea of living cooperatively makes you so ill that you want to euthanize yourself ...... I wouldn't pass a law against it.
The world will be better off with people who don't care about it.
It kinda does, that's what "minimum wage" means. It means every job must pay more than the minimum. I'm saying that someone who works full time shouldn't have to go into debt to live in America with a basic level of dignity. Incredibly, you're pushing back on this idea. How do you imagine the economy is even going to work if no one can afford to live off a basic service industr
People weren’t raising lower-middle-class families in the ’50s by pumping gas or bagging groceries their whole lives. Those jobs have never been the thing that supported an adult household on a single income. They were supplemental or entry-level then, and they’re the same now.
As I said, you’re just taking a snapshot of people’s lives while they’re in that minimum wage phase and assuming that’s supposed to be their entire economic life. Obviously there are people stuck at low income but thats do to a lot of factors other than min wage.
It wouldn't be a prison. People could join the unit of their choice. Lots of cool work to choose from. You could teach kids or be a park ranger. Or do both. A great way to see the world. Imagine ..... everywhere in the world you went, people would treat you like family. Because that's what we all are. We all have a common origin. It would be a prison for the weapons manufacture
Well, we are making some progress in this discussion so that's a good thing.
What type of unit might I find appealing, in your opinion? I like to oil paint, play Nintendo and read Stephen King.
Well, we are making some progress in this discussion so that's a good thing.
What type of unit might I find appealing, in your opinion?
I don't know. What do you feel like you have to offer the world ? What are you passionate about ? What skills do you have ?
Do you like children ? The world will always need teachers.
Some people like machines. There will be still be mechanized agriculture and roads needing snow to be plowed.
