TPWK multiway, weak flop action

I probably 3bet preflop.

Flop is never a raise. We have top pair with ok kicker only. This is a 5way flop. Small hand small pot. Unless Villain(s) is an uberfish that donates money to the whole table with random trash.
It's either fold or call. Fold is a bit too nitty with top pair, so process of elimination, call is probably best.

We are never raising flop with 2 pairs or less for value in multiway pots. Then add some semibluffs(combodraws, st8d, nfd) etc.

Also always keep track of OR's stack, and notice if there are any shortstacks. We can stackoff vs shortstacks on this flop but not vs 175bb.

I think this is a pretty nice spot to check raise a weak looking bet. We are likely ahead, have good backdoors, and need to clean up some equity while protecting our hand from the inevitable cascade of calls if we just call.

That said calling can’t be that bad.

Calling in the BB is fine here. You'd have to 3bet to more than $60 to get the folds you want, and if you get even one call, you are OOP in a bloated pot w/ an easily dominated hand. I guess if you have a nit image and can rep big on most flops, 3betting is OK.

I can go either way on the flop. Again, what is your image? I probably raise that small bet (looks like a "see where I'm at" or position bet), given that nobody else has shown an interest.

Reads on players would be nice...

Flop is never a raise. I think this is a mandatory 3bet pre personally.

How is flop never a raise? BTN just calls a raise pre and bets $15 into $45 when it's checked to him? Looks as if he's just trying to steal the pot. Calling is OK, but it lets others call, too, and see a cheap turn.

x/r but I'm not sure how many people are in so not sure of size

Good idea OTF but don't think it's a good time to apply it.

3 players LTA, 1 of which is wholly uncapped and the other two could plausibly slowplay a fairly heavy-but-dry board. You've got the pivot card and backdoor royal flush draw, it shouldn't be too miserable to realize equity and play a pot more appropriately sized for your hand strength.

So we had the opportunity to 3! and go to the flop with initiative and nut advantage, but instead we decided to go super-multiway and now with moderate SDV we are considering a x/r into multiple opponents when we don't have the nut advantage. I think that's the definition of monkey stabbing.

We had our chance to get aggressive and passed on it. Now nothing to do but call and hope the initial raiser doesn't come in with a x/r.

Next time 3!

I mean, let’s not pretend like this spot is a fist pump OOP in a 100bb pot after two players flat your 3b just because you have “initiative” and “nut advantage.”

Trust me, I’ve punted the stacks so you don’t have to, you need to actually be doing well against your opponents’ starting range for an OOP squeeze to be effective. So OR better have a 20%+ range or overfold this config to feel good about blowing up the pot with QJs.

I’m alllllllll for 3b or fold strats facing 5bb opens, but I can’t hate the flat with the full BB discount and a bunch of EV donors ant hole cards that are in the sliver of hands that are good enough to flat without being obvious 3b candidates.

Still prolly better off yelling at OP for doing it and having him miss out on the like 0.7bbs of EV every time they have one of the <5% of acceptable hands to do this with then giving them the permission structure to make all the terrible cope calls people make here.

If we 3! we have a ton more options than all-in, that would be a punt. Even H/U if it gets all in on this flop QJ loses most of the time and a x/r is probably bad but at least would work a fair amount.

But when we take the passive route, suddenly getting hyper-aggro when one V shows aggression and several uncapped Vs left to act is just giving money away. A x/r here is pure spew.

To be clear, I think the call pre is whatever. Not how I play but probably +EV if we navigate ok post flop. But if we're just going off the rails piling in money after opting for the passive line, it isn't going to end well.