KJs in BB: 3bet into monotone broadway

Mods: change the title to rainbow broadway. Error in the title, not the hand.

Check or bet small ($40ish) both seem reasonable. If I check, I am not planning to fold.

If checking feels face-up, remind yourself that it's pretty reasonable for you to check nutted hands (and some Ax) here, so you should be completely uncapped.

EDIT: I like pre-flop, as well.

We're not deep enough to make him fold a value hand by the river, so just check and see what he does.

I assumed 3bet this hand is bad in BB HU, and SB call isn't enough to change it ... and GTO wiz agrees with the HU part, almost no 3bet with KJs but does 3bet KJo about 50% of the time. Reads suggest to 3bet less when he opens, no?

I assumed we'd bet this board in a 3bet pot a lot ... and GTO wiz disagreed, 88.5% check vs. BTN (20% bet the rest, and it's mixed like only a bot can do). Although my first guess is that's because ranges are so wide for both players as GTO BB is preflop 3betting KTo/K9o/QTo/J6s/T6s and T9s/98s/ and while we have the sets and BTN doesn't, the KQs/AJs/JTs/KQo looks about the same for both and BTN can have ATs ... I'm very likely not finding the same number of checks with AK/AQ as GTO here.

The main reason why I like OP's 3bet is because the $10 iso on the button (over 3 limps!) seems really weak. Some bad players use $10 no matter how many limpers are in there, and some will use smaller sizes with their stronger hands because they want six calls with AA for some reason, but I think this is a middle-strength-or-worse hand (thinking small pocket pairs, middling suited aces, suited broadways) the majority of the time.

That being said, I definitely over-aggress and spew versus passive players too often, so OP should take my advice with a grain of salt :(

Tried to post earlier, but kept getting errors.

I don't like the 3bet vs. this guy, and if I do it, I go $45. Check flop. Seems like the type to call you down w/ A or better. I mean, maybe you get a fold, so you can go small, but if he calls, I'm shutting down unless I bink something.

1: Why don't you like the 3! vs "this guy"? The only relevant info I see is that he doesn't 3! and that means we can guess than he probably doesn't 4! either. If someone doesn't 4!, then we should 3! more frequently.

2: Do you think squeezing for $45 is ever going to get the SB to fold? Remember there were three limpers, then the button raised and the SB called. So $26 in the pot before we bet. $45 seems woefully inadequate to get SB to fold because SB will be closing the action for an additional $35 into a $100+ pot. At those odds, he should call almost anything that would flat the button, and I think most would. Instead, SB was facing a call of $50 into a $120 pot.

Somehow, I have a hunch that if H had flatted and the three limpers came in, everyone would be (correctly) shouting "3! of Fold!", if he had tried squeezing to $45 and both BTN and SB called, people would be shouting "3! larger!" (and they'd be right).

OOP 3! sizing should tend to be 4x+ anyway (we want fold equity), when there is a caller and we're squeezing we have to size up. So taking 4x the bet, adding in the dead money ($18), and rounding up is a very rational formula to come up with a principled 3! size OOP. That's how I'd calculate my 3! size in game, then add modifications based on specific player tendencies. Not sure how OP came up with the size, but its exactly the size I'd have come up with.

Because he limped w/ KK and now he's raising. We are so easily dominated.

$45 gets the same result w/o bloating the pot OOP vs a guy who limped KK and now raises. Not worried about SB -- he can come along if he likes. If they are calling $45, they are calling $60, and I don't want a bloated pot OOP with this hand. Especially vs. someone who limps and calls down w/ KK.

Results

Hero miscounts his chips and goes all in. V tank-folds.

Thank you 2+2 for getting me in this spot. I thought: I have no idea what to do. I think I’ll bet. I should have stacked my chips before the hand. Only 120 behind now? Didn’t I win more in the previous hand? I guess I’m pot committed.

The power of blind aggression! Be careful, you might become a LAG 😀

He didn't limp with KK, he flat called an RFI with KK. That does not at all imply that he never raises or that he only raises hands stronger than KK. A lot of $1/$2 players simply never 3!, often because they are uncomfortable navigating 3! pots. That isn't the same as never raising.

That is absurd logic. There is a difference between $45 and $60, and sizing definitely influences how many people will call. One more person in the pot greatly decreases our opportunity to win the pot. Especially with a borderline hand.

When we are OOP, we want a bloated pot and a small SPR because we don't have a positional advantage. A low SPR diminishes the value of position. That's why in theory 3!s from OOP are always larger than 3!s from IP. Being OOP benefits from being able to just put stacks in on a lot of boards, while IP benefits from being deeper and allowing room for more nuanced play. That's basic theory we all should be able to agree upon.

You act as if KK or stronger are literally the only hands he has here. If this guy had been folding for 7 hours straight and this is the first hand he's raised, then ok - maybe his range is AA/KK, but that is far more detail than was provided in the OP. According to the OP, we've seen him RFI 4 out of 20 hands and VPIPing twice that. One of those VPIPs was flatting a raise with KK. So this V raises somewhat frequently, gets involved in a lot of hands, and apparently doesn't 3! often enough. That's the read. Not "this guy only plays AA/KK".

I usually advocate for larger 3bet OOP, but not vs this guy. I act as if we have a dominated hand (not only KK/AA, but AK, AQ, QQ, JJ, etc.) vs a passive player who just raised. I also act as if we are playing live players who are going to call $60 if they are going to call $45. This is live poker. It's what they do. Do you play live? I don't want to bloat the pot OOP w/ KJ vs a player who probably has me dominated when we are so shallow. We have $230. LOL. And I sure as heck would rather put in $45 in case this guy wakes up and 4bets.

you can probably 3b anything vs this guy if he is not 4b wide enough. That said your 3b size is pretty large but you got a good flop. I kind of like it if he is just gonna call and over fold the flop.

Against a normal villain I would never 3b KJ suited as getting 4b would be a disaster.

Check or jam flop are both fine. I don't really like betting small as stacks will be awkward and you really don't wanna get called but you at least have some equity.

After the hand I thought maybe I should have bet 50 preflop. It sucks betting big oop and getting to a broadway connected rainbow flop with an SPR of 1.7.

You have to 3bet KJs in the BB to get calls when you have premiums. You don’t 3bet in the BB with KJo, a trouble hand and hard to play oop. But on a rainbow flop, KJs is basically just as hard as KJo to play.

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