GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread
Other Key Wing Defenders
Orlando Magic: Franz Wagner is a rising defensive force.
Cleveland Cavaliers: Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland also contribute defensively alongside Evan Mobley.
San Antonio Spurs: Victor Wembanyama (though a big) locks down wings, while other wings step up.
Lakers (Rumored Target): Dillon Brooks has been a target for the Lakers to boost their wing defense.
Team Examples Known for Defense
OKC Thunder: Elite overall defense with Jalen Williams leading the wing effort.
Boston Celtics: A strong defensive unit with Brown and Tatum.
Houston Rockets: Known for length and defenders like Brooks and Jabari Smith Jr..
Key Takeaway: While names like Jalen Williams, Jaden McDaniels, Dillon Brooks, OG Anunoby, and Jaylen Brown consistently appear as top wing defenders, many teams rely on strong defensive schemes and multiple players, with the Thunder, Celtics, and Rockets often highlighted for their strong overall defense.
I don't know a lot of these guys.
I picked the OKC guy...Jalen Williams is listed around 6'5" with an impressive 7'2" wingspan and recorded a 39-inch max vertical leap at the 2022 NBA Draft Combine, showcasing excellent length and athleticism for his size, which allows him to finish above the rim and defend multiple positions effectively.
Key Measurements:
Height: ~6'5" (measured 6'5.75" in shoes at Combine)
Wingspan: 7'2" (spectacularly long for his height)
Weight: Around 211 lbs (at draft time)
Max Vertical: 39 inches
So, he just turned 21 at the draft. He's measured at 6'6'' or so in shoes. Weighs 211. At 21.
I asked what was Jordan's wingspan. AI said 6'11''. This dude is 3 inch longer. Almost 40 in vert.
These are the kind of random dudes I get just by asking AI. The 100% Jordan Build.
Ausar Thompson has a reported vertical leap of around 38 inches, but his overall athleticism, hangtime, and ability to play above the rim are often described as even better in-game, making him an elite defensive and transition threat with explosive leaping ability, even if his twin brother Amen has a higher measured vertical (44 inches).
Key Details:
Reported Vertical: 38 inches (though it feels higher in games).
Athletic Strengths: Exceptional hangtime, quick first step, fluid movement, and a 7-foot wingspan contribute to his elite defensive impact and above-the-rim finishes.
Comparison to Amen: His twin brother Amen has a significantly higher measured vertical (44 inches), but Ausar's unique leaping style makes him just as impactful in the air.
Impact: His explosiveness helps him contest shots, recover defensively, and finish strong in transition.
So there's two of these f'ers.
As you might expect from a pair of identical twins who've spent almost their entire basketball lives together, the Thompsons have similar frames and skill sets. They both stand at 6-foot-7, weigh about 210 to 215 pounds and are considered some of the NBA's purest athletes despite their young age.
While names like Jalen Williams, Jaden McDaniels, Dillon Brooks, OG Anunoby, and Jaylen Brown consistently appear as top wing defenders, many teams rely on strong defensive schemes and multiple players, with the Thunder, Celtics, and Rockets often highlighted for their strong overall defense.
I think bolded is important. Today, they do a lot more to try to contain the offense which is spread out along the 3. That is where Jordan will be too. He'll be expected to move the ball along the perimeter. Drive and kick out. And hit the open and contested 3. I assume like everyone he'd probably excel at most all of that. But it's way different than how he played before, in the triangle for example.
The pure Triangle Offense likely wouldn't dominate today's NBA due to its reliance on mid-range shots and slower pace, which clash with modern analytics favoring threes and pace-and-space; however, its core principles of player movement, spacing, and reading defenses are still influential, seen in offenses like the Warriors' and Spurs' motion sets, but a full, traditional adoption is unlikely because it's complex and doesn't maximize three-point opportunities
Motion offenses are fun. Ours would...Guard to guard screen down. Guard to forward screen across. Umm...somebody to somebody, screen diagonally. I don't remember. But there are like rules and ****.
They can do a lot more because they look for the freakiest longest guys all over the world who can switch off their man and guard someone else of a different size. This makes screens not as effective. Sure, you put the best matchup on a guy, but if it's a good screen, it's great if you can switch. Fighting through it, ok but you're gonna be trailing sometimes. They always have big mobile shotblockers back there.
Call them "rim protectors". Never heard that phrase like 20 years ago, but it's like the "dunkers position". Hell, it's like "wing defender". We just said, idk "he's the best defensive forward in the game". But, yeah, rim protectors. No room for Jeff Ruland in today's NBA. Rick Mahorn. The bruise brother with Laimbeer. Actually Bill Laimbeer shot the 3, he might have a job.
I wonder how many nba wing defensive guys there are today that fit the "Jordan Build". Because that list yesterday of Robert Pack, Dale Ellis, Derrick Mckey, Antony Mason, etc. had...I don't even want to look... Nique sure but he played little d, c'mon. Reggie Miller wasn't a leaper, wasn't a defender and wasn't over 190lbs. Oh Drexler. I'd say he qualifies as the "Jordan Build". He was a two player player. Jordan cooked em pretty well in that finals. Just shruggin man and hitting 3s in that game 1. lol. That was funny. All the talk and strategy, and MJ just starts nailing 3's.
Donovan Mitchell has a highly explosive vertical leap, famously recorded at 40.5 inches (max) and 36.5 inches (no-step) at the 2017 NBA Draft Combine, leading all participants in the standing vertical. This elite athleticism, combined with his 6'10" wingspan, allows him to finish strong at the rim and make difficult plays despite being undersized for a shooting guard.
See how he grows his hair out and up a little bit, what difference does it make if he is actually 6'2.5''. I'd put him in the Jordan Build. You look at him, he has long arms, he is thick as all, his hair, he jumps super high.
If you are as long as Jordan, you jump out of the gym like Jordan, you are as strong as Jordan...dang it you're a member of the Jordan Build club.
Timberwolves head coach Chris Finch said in 2021 that Edwards had grown a couple of inches since being drafted and was more like 6-6.
idk. His length is 6'9''-6'10'', no real accurate measurement. He was benching 275 at 17, that is a fact. He jumps...man this might be sacrilegious because we all know Jordan had a 50...60...unmeasurable vertical...but he jump higher. His dunks are mind blowing.
He 100% gets it.
Donovan Mitchell has a highly explosive vertical leap, famously recorded at 40.5 inches (max) and 36.5 inches (no-step) at the 2017 NBA Draft Combine, leading all participants in the standing vertical. This elite athleticism, combined with his 6'10" wingspan, allows him to finish strong at the rim and make difficult plays despite being undersized for a shooting guard.
See how he grows his hair out and up a little bit, what difference does it make if he is actually 6'2.5''. I'd put him in the Jordan Build. You look at him, he has long arms, he is thick as all, his hair, he jumps super high.
If you are as long as Jordan, you jump out of the gym like Jordan, you are as strong as Jordan...dang it you're a member of the Jordan Build club.
Timberwolves head coach Chris Finch said in 2021 that Edwards had grown a couple of inches since being drafted and was more like 6-6.
idk. His length is 6'9''-6'10'', no real accurate measurement. He was benching 275 at 17, that is a fact. He jumps...man this might be sacrilegious because we all know Jordan had a 50...60...unmeasurable vertical...but he jump higher. His dunks are mind blowing.
He 100% gets it.
opps. So, I think Ant-man qualifies as a Jordan Build. "Edwards can effectively guard both guards and forwards, a testament to his strength, notes Zone Coverage." I mean zone coverage says so.
I know FG says he's too short but all these guys have long arms. Many mentioned are longer. Those two, Edwards and Mitchell are right there. like 6'10 vs 6'11 for Jordan. Joe Dumars was shorter than Edwards and about the same height as Mitchell and had way shorter arms and both these guys are i would guess close to a foot and a half higher on their contests. Seriously. They are probably 5 inches in arms and close to 10 inches in jumping off the ground higher.
Not to mention they both look like linebackers.
I wonder how many nba wing defensive guys there are today that fit the "Jordan Build". Because that list yesterday of Robert Pack, Dale Ellis, Derrick Mckey, Antony Mason, etc. had...I don't even want to look... Nique sure but he played little d, c'mon. Reggie Miller wasn't a leaper, wasn't a defender and wasn't over 190lbs. Oh Drexler. I'd say he qualifies as the "Jordan
He was a two player player...* He was a two-way player it should read. Drexler was. And Jordan did well against him, and Porter, and Cliff Robinson. That Cliff guy played forever, remember him. Uncle Cliffie.
Says nothing about how today's Jordan replacing Jaylen would be better than Lebron. It wouldn't shock me to see JB score 35 against Portland in 1992. Well it would, of course, I mean that would be an insane hallucination, but the thought experiment or whatever you call it.
Clifford Robinson (often known as Cliff Robinson) did not play in a game against LeBron James.
Clifford Robinson played in the NBA from 1989 until his retirement in July 2007. LeBron James made his NBA debut on October 29, 2003, and has played continuously since then.
During the years both were in the league (from October 2003 to July 2007), they played in opposite conferences for different teams. Robinson played for the Golden State Warriors and the New Jersey Nets during that period, while James played for the Cleveland Cavaliers. While their teams could have played each other in the regular season, a check of their career timelines confirms they never faced each other in a game.
AI goes on to say:
Clifford Robinson (or Cliff Robinson) did not play against LeBron James. Robinson was quoted on February 6, 2005 after a game against the Milwaukee Bucks, "Fact is, there really weren't that many great wing defenders back in the day. Imagine in 20 years, if you were to take MJ and put him on a team, he'd still be pretty great, but I think this Lebron kid would be better. We have to make assumptions that both would understand the game as it's played then. I think about this stuff a lot."
Yeah, AI is wild. Lot of info...so I already mentioned Kawhi, JB, Butler, Jordan Walsh. All Jordan Builds. Paul George was, obviously.
And the guys I mentioned today, the twins, the OKC guy. Mitchell and Edwards. There are a lot active players of this mode. I'll check the specs on more...
OG Anunoby has an impressive vertical leap, noted around his draft time for explosive jumping ability, with some reports mentioning figures like a 40-inch vertical alongside his great length (7'2" wingspan)
Good Lord. 6'7'' 240.
Pascal Siakam, Giannis, Wemby, Chet. Tatum...they are on that AI list of wing defenders. Don't really think of the Jordan Build. Giannis is more the Lebron Build. He and OG.
Jordan and Lebron played against a lot of the same players, but Lebron didn't become MVP until the 90's guys got old like Shaq, KG, Kidd, Kobe, etc
Again, there are no 6'7" starting SG's in today's game and very few 6'6" SG's, so Jordan faced far bigger wings in his day - bigger SG's, bigger SF's and bigger bigs
And you can post all the fake quotes you want, but the consensus is that Jordan would average between 40-50 today - that's what most quotes say.. This is due to smaller wings, weaker defensive rules, and weaker mentality and IQ of the players.. Tyron Lue said that MJ would average 40 and beat today's players based on IQ alone.. He said today's players have low IQ
Pascal Siakam, Giannis, Wemby, Chet. Tatum...they are on that AI list of wing defenders. Don't really think of the Jordan Build. Giannis is more the Lebron Build. He and OG.
Larry Nance, David Robinson, Kemp, Dominique, Drexler, Shaq, Rodman
Better than the bums you mentioned
Wemby can't guard perimeter players - he gets embarrassed on the perimeter consistently because he's like 11 feet tall - this is why today game has nullified bigs and DPOY's like Gobert aren't playable in the playoffs - you can just bring them to the perimeter and iso them - making them a huge liability
Jordan would destroy today's beginner format (designed for wings to go off).
Again, unathletic guys like Luka or Jokic and bricklayers like Giannis and Westbrook can dominate by driving the open paint.. This makes today's game easier because you needed to be a great shooter to shoot over packed paints in prior eras, and physically imposing - you couldn't be a bricklayer or unathletic
.
Starting 6'7" SG's in 1990 season
* Dale Ellis
* Dan Majerle
* Clyde Drexler
* Reggie Lewis
* Reggie Theus
* Reggie Miller
* Tony Campbell
* Willie Anderson
Starting 6'7" SG's in 2026 season
N/A
There are no starting 6'7" SG's in today's NBA and almost no 6'6" SG's, while previous eras had many 6'7' and 6'6" SG's
Overall, the average height for SG's today is 6'4" compared to 6'6" in the 90's
Pascal Siakam, Giannis, Wemby, Chet. Tatum...they are on that AI list of wing defenders. Don't really think of the Jordan Build. Giannis is more the Lebron Build. He and OG.
Yeah, my thoughts were with this post, "I am not going to be a disingenuous person like that guy and post a bunch of centers and bigs that, while they can play great perimeter D, would probably seldom guard Jordan. I am trying to have an honest discussion of defensive wing players. So the list of great defensive wing players that AI provided, I'll leave these guys off, I don't have to brow beat this guy!"
You: Umm Leapin Larry Nance! Darrel Dawkins! They were big and can jump! Nique! Nique!! Chessmate sucka!
Did you just list Reggie Theus in a discussion of great wing defenders? Along with Reggie Miller and Dale Ellis?
I'm actually spending time looking up arm length and verticals, and you are "oh he's 6'7''!" Oh, he's listed with an SG beside his name, nobody starting these days with an SG is as big as Reggie Theus! Sure bro, Reggie Theus is stoppin Lebron and those Thompson twins can't guard like Dale Ellis because Dale is 6'7'' and plays the 2. OG is a sweet guy you'd love to see across from you at tip off and Reggie Miller, all 170lbs of him, you see how intense he is! and he's 6'7'' and he's listed 2nd in the box score! so he's a SG!!
Yeah, my thoughts were with this post, "I am not going to be a disingenuous person like that guy and post a bunch of centers and bigs that, while they can play great perimeter D, would probably seldom guard Jordan. I am trying to have an honest discussion of defensive wing players. So the list of great defensive wing players that AI provided, I'll leave these guys off, I don't have to brow beat this guy!"
Like I'm thinking, "I'm having fun seeing that there are just SO MANY legit "Jordan Build" guys, discovering new ones!"
Obviously, having these guys and a couple dozen other mobile bigs that can get out on the perimeter, often switch, playing along side the 6'6'' 220 7 foot arms guys... is key to modern d and would make Jordan's scoring harder like it does for every other human...
You, "Reggie Theus! Larry Nance!!"
Jordan and Lebron played against a lot of the same players, but Lebron didn't become MVP until the 90's guys got old like Shaq, KG, Kidd, Kobe, etc
Fact Check
LeBron won his first MVP in 09 as a 24 year old (he finished 2nd as a 21 year old). FG believes this is bad. Note, MJ, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Curry, Joker were all much older.
Kobe was in his prime in 09.
Again, there are no 6'7" starting SG's in today's game and very few 6'6" SG's, so Jordan faced far bigger wings in his day - bigger SG's, bigger SF's and bigger bigs
Fact check
And you can post all the fake quotes you want, but the consensus is that Jordan would average between 40-50 today - that's what most quotes say.. This is due to smaller wings, weaker defensive rules, and weaker mentality and IQ of the players.. Tyron Lue said that MJ would average 40 and beat today's players based on IQ alone.. He said today's players have low IQ
Fact check
MJ with such a great IQ that he couldn't work out 3>2 and then develop his 3 point shot.
Did you just list Reggie Theus in a discussion of great wing defenders? Along with Reggie Miller and Dale Ellis?
But but but 6 foot 7.
Also, fairly common knowledge is players were measured with shoes on in the 90s. Not anymore.
Reggie 6-7 Hali - 6-5
Yes and a 40 year old LeBron had played about 20 games with a Luka that just come off an injury and was from another team and had completely changed the Lakers last year. But Fallguy always counts it as some huge failure on LeBron's resume that he didn't win with Luka.
No need to do like him o0
