8 mins in facing strong flop action

I mean it looks like a set, smells like a set, but this shallow I'm ripping it in. There's certainly room for V to have a combo draw like JTdd or overplaying QQ or super aggro FD. At least we have the diamond for a runner/runner if needed. Against 2p we have decent odds.

I'd rather pay off now and find out he's supernit than fold and find out he is aggro bombing everything. There's too much money out there and we don't have enough info to know for certain we are behind.

With the straddle on this is like 60 bb deep, hard to get away from KK on this board with so many draws available.

I don’t understand how this is a question (maybe you lost) but are you really considering folding kings. I’m shoving it right in his face.

Could have a set
Or JT maybe 76 or a couple of diamonds. Maybe A9 or A8 or nothing at all. If he does have a set, there’s an outside chance you catch up.

There’s a time to fold kings, this ain’t it.

I’m sorry you lost this time, but now you have some info on villains. When all you have is uncertainty, don’t fold aces and kings.

That flop action seems super strong to me. How many times is a flop 3bet click-back a worse hand or draw?

No way I'm folding. Just shove.

Pretty sure we're supposed to call the lead ... the reasoning I usually see for raising bad players here is that when they bet small they are donking worse pairs, that seems pretty unlikely here after he 3bets.

Maybe super fish is just sticking it in with JJ, but H putting in 20 preflop and then 350 more with KK on a 982 flop is set mining christmas.

The lead already got one fold, and we even have the Kd for backup/runouts.

Grunch:

PRE - the description of the action is confusing. How is V3 in UTG straddling and limping?

If there's a limp in front of us, I'm probably raising bigger, at least making it $25.

FLOP - Donks from EP in multi-way pots are usually strong hands, or at worst really good draws. I don't mind the raise to push V2 out, but I think we could accomplish that with a min-click. It's pretty gross to raise to $90 and have V2 3B to $200 leaving less than 1/4 pot behind.

We're kind of in no man's land here. We probably have enough equity to call against a range of 2P, sets, pair + draws and naked draws, but I'd have preferred to see a cheaper turn with our hand.

I dunno. It seems like a close decision. I probably call and hate myself for raising if we lose to 2P or a set.

I would call the 20, though raising to 60 and folding to a reraise seems fine too. Stacking off seems like a punt, what exactly are we hoping for, a flip? That’s best case.

On the flop if we were HU with V1 I would just call. With a player left to act I prefer a raise to 80 hoping to fold out V2 and gain position. At these stakes with no reads I'm folding to the raise without a second thought.

You guys are folding KK on a draw-heavy board for ~50bb (with straddle)? I'm folding only if I get some vibe/tell that this guy is really tight.

We agree that calling is not an option? All that does is commit us. The only options are to fold or sh. ove. Shoving gives V over 4:1 odds. What hands does V have? He has all the sets and top two. What is the worst draw V has? 7d6d, JdTd? What is the worst made hand V has here? Ad9x?

At this low stakes game and with no reads on V this could easily turn into an 87 big blind mistake.

I should have noted that it’s a 3 blind game. The straddle is mandatory.

Then I definitely consider it 43 bb.

TT maybe punts it off, but I wouldn't expect people to 3bet flop with Ad9.

Also the size is super worrying, like lots of the monster draws like 7d6d (EV in front of our hand) don't want to 3bet to this amount then get a call and a turn brick. Even seems weird for 98. All the sets are fine with it though, maybe Ad*d and 8d*d would be fine with it too.

Obviously he could just be clicking buttons, but in general I'd assume his 3bet shoving range would be weaker than this min. click 3bet range.

Saying all that, at the point we are in the hand we need to "call off" ~250 for a pot of ~750 so if we know we're 35% vs. range then calling is technically better long term.

Although I wouldn't be shocked if calling isn't good, being here is the big problem (we have to be getting a lot of EV from that flop raise to compensate).

I'd agree.

We should treat the raise as an all-in.

I do wonder how often a low-stakes rec makes a huge blunder by raising here, and pot-committing themselves with just a draw. And if they are capable of making that level of blunder, is there any chance they fold to a jam.

If we're never folding, then jamming would seem better than calling, if V ever finds a fold with anything that has even a shred of equity.

Maybe V punts with TT / JJ, and not Ad9x, but I seem to see enough Ad8d and 76o or JTo doing this to think V's range isn't always and only 2P+.

IME, the MABG demo can go either way - super-spewy, or always-nutted. I might tank a bit to see if we can pick up any tells from him.

The action as played seems less like this and more like someone who has AA preflop reraising to a small amount so as to not lose their customer, even if that amount is like 40% of their stack.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still getting it in here (and hating it), but Villain raising this big with a draw and then not following through on it all-in is about as high on my list of possibilities as a tap-dancing shark.

What's your problem with tap dancing?

Results: was a little lost in this hand. Absolutely didn’t want to give a free or cheap turn but didn’t love building the pot either. H shrug shoves over the top and V beats me into the pot. V has 67cc which is way weaker than I had in his range.

Boom!

Nailed it!

Well played. I hope he didn't bink 😉

Who says low stakes NLHE is a dead game?