5/5/T Live 3bet Pot OOP HU 100bb ef
This is 5/5 8-handed game with a straddle that is effectively mandatory.
Hero (1000) EP
Villain (2500) MP
Villain and Hero have a fair amount of history. Villain is an older, somewhat wily player with a high VPIP. The bottom of his 3bet range includes a bunch of KKx, better QQx as well as some single-suit Broadway- and mid- rundowns. He tends to 3bet wider IP.
Preflop Hero RFI's Q♣J♦4♣4♦ to $30, Villain raises to $100, Hero calls.
Flop (220) Q♦8♣5♣
Hero checks, Villain pots, Hero raises AI.
Hero's preflop RFI is marginal perhaps, but flop is standard, right?
6 Replies
Fold pre twice?
Fold or call flop once?
When villain cbets pot on this flop, he has alot of AA/KK with fd, which dominates your hand. Or can have something like AJ9Tds/AKJTds/AKQJds type hands.
You have 0 fold equity vs his cbet pot range imho.
I don't think naked KKxx AAxx goes crazy here unless he's super aggro and fishy even then you probably have 0 fold equity.
Villain only folding bluffs which I doubt he has much in his range.
I think we are behind like most of the time. On the other rare occasions villain getting it in with naked 1 pair hand we are only like 50/50 at best.
I think our hand major mistakes is preflop and it gets compounded on the flop even more.
On the surface, our hand looks good like tp+fd+bdfd. But everything is medium strength or drawing to medium strength hands, when villain can already have the nutted strength and/or nutted draws already.
Look at these combos here, we only barely beat naked AAxx with no draws.
The other times we are a huge dog or a slight dog.
We are never ahead.
Villain is never folding, hence shoving is super super bad.
I appreciate those samples of Villain's 3bet range, which are a fair representation. At best we have 50% on flop, worst 20% and often 40%. Given we need 40% to break even, the shove is ambitious, although I do believe we have some FE versus naked AA, KK and some Qx, but generally Villain will have clubs and/or some kind of straight draw/pair. (We can just call flop and fold turns, too, especially on a non-♦ A, K, T, 9, 8 or 5). I miss propoker tools (my version is on an old Mac that died.)
Interestingly, my resource for ranges (a little dated now) has QJ44ds as an RFI:
Spoiler
I thought the RFI marginal in game and agree with your observation that it's the source of compounding errors. Generally this hand type (ds low-pp with broadways) plays better HU, so defending v the 3bet isn't a major error in my view.
If the game is time raked I think pre is fine. I think flop is fine.
Ah...I've never studied these preflop charts.
I just use my own logic that I've learned by outdated plo books. High pp, suited, connectedness, A high fd. Low pp(lower than 77) was condemned by these books I've read, cause it never flops top set.
Low pp really suck since we flop bottom set all the time, then facing aggression, we have no clue where we are at.
The worst is when we flop unders full on paired board, even if villain has naked trips, he still has 40% equity vs us.
For live I tighten my preflop range alot. Since blinds are like only 2$(2/2), but it's playing like a 2/5+ game.
And imho, most live players biggest leaks is preflop.
Most of them play random trash, calling way way too much.
Ah...I've never studied these preflop charts.I just use my own logic that I've learned by outdated plo books. High pp, suited, connectedness, A high fd. Low pp(lower than 77) was condemned by these books I've read, cause it never flops top set.Low pp really suck since we flop bottom set all the time, then facing aggression, we have no clue where we are at.The worst is when we
These RFI ranges are for 6max online where most pots are likely to be HU, so we're less likely to run into mid-pp and can potentially get some value from AAx and KKx on low boards (e.g. T42). That being said I still think it's a marginal RFI especially in a high-raked live game where multiway pots are common. Generally in these games higher rundowns and JJxx+ are better RFIs, although we're pretty much always giving-up on non-broadway flops if we don't have lower rundowns and pps in our EP range.
