AAAxx 3-flush, weak action
1/3 NL. UTG+1 has about 200, I have about 300, 4th position covers . It is about noon Saterday. Table is relatively tight. Not a lot of many way raised pots and a reasonable amount of 3-betting. No obvious LAGs; most players appear to be playing sort of reasonably preflop. Not a lot of big pots.
UTG+1 in this hand limps a lot. Twice he limped in ep and I raised to 15 next to act. Once I had AQo and everyone folded. The other time he called HU and I checked back the KJT,r flop with AA. Turn was a J and he checked and instantly folded to my bet.
UTG+1 limps, hero raises QcJc to 15, 4th position calls, limper calls. Flop (42) Ah6hAd. x, hero cbets 15, call, call. Turn (85) is As for Ah6hAdAs. x/x/x. River is 4h for Ah6hAdAs4h, x, hero???
16 Replies
If you want to take a stab at it, I wish you had done so on the turn. A small turn bet looks like you have them crushed and want a call.
Small flop bets mean nothing, everyone expects the continuation bet. But the turn is when people give up.
As played, you won’t get folds betting small now, but betting big in this spot is risky.
This spot is player dependent. Is one of these players capable of coming over the top of your bet with a bluff? Would one of them slow play an ace? Do they think you’re tight enough to have something in this spot?
So, I really think this is a spot where I’d have to be there to decide the best action. If these are the kind that see a big bet and fold their marginals, I’m ready to attack. On the other hand, the flush got there and many players won’t fold a pair of any kind, so I might give up.
I’m pretty sure they won’t call with worse or fold better hands, so it’s not a great spot. I don’t like guessing, I wish you had bet small on the turn.
Surrender, we’re going to have a hard time getting through both and sometimes we smash into quads.
We are never getting a boat to fold and to get a flush to fold we probably have to go pretty big. So what are we really targeting? K high?
Sometimes if this checks through we somehow have the best hand. I think betting large enough to push off any made hand is a bit suicidal because neither V is capped.
If I had the A here or KK, I'd jam expecting to get called enough to offset any weak flushes or 22 I push out.
Agree with Freecard, a small bet OTT would be way more effective. A lot of FD would just give up for a low price.
If I had quads, then probably the play would be to bet reasonably large on the turn to built the pot for a river bet, hoping someone couldn't fold a full house.
I didn't think it through well that I was trying to get someone to fold a full house. I thought since I raised in ep, I was expected to have 99+ or an ace. I thought I could represent a pair of face cards trying to get action from a flush and somewhat afraid of quads so didn't bet the turn. So I bet 50 on the river into 85.
I may have picked reads on the two players and/or reacted to the table playing tight.
Anyway, my bluff got through. UTG+1 folded 77 face up. It might have been a good fold. I showed a Q, so it would look like QQ or AQ, but could maybe be a bluff with Q-high.
I was wondering if the bluff was bad when I saw what he folded, so thought it might be interesting to post.
Are we value betting 6x? I wouldn’t. That makes 77 a bluff catcher.
Yeah, I thought it might be a good fold, as he might think I wouldn't bluff much there. I wouldn't have 6x. I was raising suited broadway, but wouldn't raise a 6 in ep. There was a lot of limping, and most of the table was raising tighter than I was.
My idea with the bluff was that whatever I raised with in ep should be a big hand on this board. It worked with UTG+1, but that is true that a lot of 1/3 players just couldn't fold a full house.
I don't even like the cbet with no bdfd 3 ways. Definitely don't try to bluff the river.
PRE - I'd probably raise to a larger size over the limper, to push the players behind us out. The limper probably isn't limping to limp-fold to any raise that isn't absurdly large, so we might make it $20 here, or maybe $25 if our read is that he's loose-splashy.
FLOP - I would just check this flop and see what our opponents do. We don't learn much when we c-bet 1/3 pot and get two calls.
TURN - Interesting card. On extreme boards, when no one has shown any interest, and it's multi-way, I'll sometimes stab for an absurdly small size, like 1BB. It's surprising how often it gets through.
RIVER - I don't think the flush matters much, if at all. As played, I might bet $25 - enough to not get looked up by every pair and K-high, but not so much that we're only getting looked up by AX. That's a size we might bet with AX, praying to get action.
If we think our opponents aren't limping in with 99+, then it's really hard for them to call any bet here. Even a hand like 77 or 88 is only beating 6x and worse, which is to say, they aren't beating very much that we'd raise pre, other than a total air-ball bluff.
PRE - I'd probably raise to a larger size over the limper, to push the players behind us out. The limper probably isn't limping to limp-fold to any raise that isn't absurdly large, so we might make it $20 here, or maybe $25 if our read is that he's loose-splashy.
This was noon on a weekend. The table was not splashy, which is partly why I tried this bluff.
As mentioned in the OP, I had raised this same limper twice in ep to 15 and once everyone folded, and the other time only the limper called. This time I got 2 callers, so had a hand to discuss. Even going to 15, I was likely to isolate against hands as good or better than QJs. My style is not to make huge raises which usually take the blinds. I don't mind getting called by junky hands and sometimes playing multiway. My read was the limper was tight, which was another reason for bluffing the river.
If we think our opponents aren't limping in with 99+, then it's really hard for them to call any bet here. Even a hand like 77 or 88 is only beating 6x and worse, which is to say, they aren't beating very much that we'd raise pre, other than a total air-ball bluff.
That is why I bluffed the river. I figured they had something to call the flop, so made it big enough to maybe take it. Also, thought that represented a pair of face cards better. Some players would call an overbet with 77, not willing to fold a boat, which might make my bluff questionable. I could have make it 25, but that would look weak, and probably just fold out ace high.
Call me crazy but i don't think an ace is folding to any bet size.
Theoretically, maybe. But in a low stakes game a mid pp is likely to flick in a call for a 30% pot bet with a full house. Also, if I had like QQ or quads, I would go bigger than that for value.
I went 50 to put some pressure on and represent 99-KK. I thought that was about what they would think I would go with JJ-KK. I didn't go bigger because that would more represent quads, which was not believable; and if someone couldn't fold a full house, they would call pot if they would call 60% pot.
