Caught in the middle of a couple Lags.
1/3 8 handed.
UTG...Very loose and very agro pre flop. He has been opening to 10-12 about 70% of the time he has the opportunity. He has called all of the times he has been 3 bet but it has only happened a couple times and the guy doing the 3 betting is also very agro. I've seen UTG open K3o from the HJ.
HJ....Very agro but also cold calls a lot pre. He bets a lot when checked to. He donked a picked up flush draw on the turn HU. I have not seen him cold call a 3 bet yet. He has folded a few times to open raises.
My reads are based off a small sample of about 40 minutes of play.
I am the effective with 300. I should have a very tight image.
UTG opens to 10, I raise in the LJ with KcJc to 40, Should I raise more here? the HJ calls, folded back to UTG who snap folds.
(90 in pot)..Qh6d4s....I'm not sure how to proceed. On one hand I feel like I should bet and rep a strong hand especially given my tight image. Even though the HJ is a loose player, calling a 3 bet from a tight player like myself concerns me. I sense if I check he will bet since he tends to play agro both pre and post.
How would you proceed?
I ended up moving to the left of the HJ not long after. Much better seat.
9 Replies
Check fold. I’m giving up on the hand. You’re in a bad spot: oop facing an aggressive player, and the only draw you have is the second-nut back door straight.
Yeah, I would give up. Versus a different player, I might cbet and barrel, representing a big pair.
Yep I'd check fold oop here. Pre is good.
"UTG opens to 10, I raise in the LJ with KcJc to 40, Should I raise more here?" - What is the goal of your raise? You raised to $40 and got one caller. Unfortunately, not the caller you wanted, but we're heads-up. I don't see a reason to go any larger. KJ isn't exactly a hand I want to play a huge pot with, the goal of the 3! for me is just to get it HU. Mission accomplished. There is no "right" bet size, there is the bet size that works for the specific game vs the specific players. It's as much art as science. If the bet achieves the goal, it was the right size.
OTF we don't have anything, and we don't have any good backdoors. We can x/f this hand. If V bets too frequently when checked to, then when we have KQ/QJ/JJ/TT here we can ck/call and let him hang himself. If we had KJhh maybe we could entertain the idea of x/r or if we are ever 3!ing with low scs like 87, 65, those would be good x/r candidates.
The problem with betting is that if V calls we're a bit lost in the hand. V could have Qx or he could just be floating random trash. We don't really know if we're against a hand we can bully off or if we're against something that will go AI. If we check, and we know that V is going to bet with air and made hands too frequently, then when V does check back, we can start targeting hands like 77-JJ or Ax that have SDV and try to bluff those off. Even very aggressive opponents will tend to slow down when they have weak SDV that they don't want to face a x/r with. So if he checks back, I'd assume his range is full of weak SDV below top pair looking to see a cheap showdown and look to delay c-bet the turn. And since I expect V to bluff too often, I'm checking OOP to him a ton even with strong flopped hands. So my range getting to the turn has a lot of strong stuff in it against this V.
I'd raise 30 pre, as we want to isolate and outplay v in position. We probably do have the best hand, but not by all that much. Make it 40 or more with premiums.
I wouldn't make too much of what you've seen over 40 minutes. Main V is super loose and calls a lot. I'd accept that. This is his first cold call of a 3! I wouldn't give him a very tight range based on that. He might also be expecting a 3 way pot, which he will play in position.
You could check here, but I would usually bet small. I don't think just giving up here is utterly terrible, but against a loose recreational player, I wouldn't give up so easily. A large range of hands might fold to a small c-bet, including the worst pairs and some suited connectors. He might fold AK or AJ. There are good turn cards for us: Ace, king, jack, ten, nine.
If I check, it is not an autofold. Watch for sizing, timing, physical or verbal tells. I would usually fold to a bet, just not always. Would be looking to bet some turns if it goes check/check.
Another way to put it is, if this guy has stuff like 89s all pps, AJo etc. and bets them all when checked to, I think going into pure give up mode is not right. We don't know his range very well, but we know he is a loose recreational player. Even if his actual range is TT+ and AK, he will fold AK a lot and we aren't in dire trouble unless he has QQ and it's not like we are stacking off, we just aren't giving up right away.
And don't forget, we 3!. He might view us as a tight player.
Grunch:
READS - UTG sounds bad. HJ doesn't sound terrible. I tend not to put much stock in the "they see me as tight" read when our opponents probably haven't even noticed our presence yet, given that we've only been at the table for 40 minutes.
PRE - You say UTG hasn't folded to a 3B yet, and HJ cold-calls a lot pre. If that's correct, I'm not sure we want to be 3B'ing KJs here, at 100BB deep. It seems very likely we'll be going to the flop multi-way, as monkey-in-the-middle, with a hand that could easily be dominated.
FLOP - when we're HU as the PFR, and we're OOP, I usually just check as a default, to see what V does.
But here, we 3B over a UTG open, and HJ just cold-called. It seems less likely he'd have connected in a big way with this flop of Q64rb. I'd think this board misses him a lot, and his value range is mostly going to be clustered around low and middling 1P hands. So, a c-bet here probably takes it down fairly often.
I still think we could just check. I'm not too concerned about being blown off our equity, since A) we don't have that much, and B) I'm not expecting V to start blasting off on this board with a lot of air.
Say we check and he does bet. If he bets huge, it's a pretty trivial fold, and we can save our ammo for a future hand, when we'll take this line with value, to trap him.
If he bets small, we can float and see what he does on the turn. If we pick up any equity, we can check again, with a plan to call again. Whatever the turn is, maybe he'll check back and we'll get to realize. If the flop checks through, we might make a delayed c-bet on the turn.
As a general rule, I think most decent yet aggro players don't feel super-comfortable trying to bluff opponents who they see as very tight.
x/r flop. we block KQ, QJ, KK and if he is in fact as aggo as you think he will likely take the bait. if he continues we are obviously done with the hand
Thank you guys.
With the loose player to the left I think folding pre is the correct play.
