TT vs LAG 3! pre
1/3/mandatory 6 NLHE 9 handed
V1 - New whale that's entered the room and is playing daily it seems. Asian. Mid-20s. Very face up pre and post. Opens too wide, calls way too wide, 3-bets too narrow, 4-bets AQs+ JJ+, overvalues overpairs post. 400$. MP.
V2 - Unknown fish. 300$. LJ.
V3 - LAG crusher. Plays higher stakes at different rooms in some major rooms including Parx, Commerce and some others. He's been on some live stream once or twice. Fun player. He can really run great lines and make huge moves. He's currently down a BI and showing us his longest winning streak in our room (21 sessions). Covers. BTN.
--- H has 550$ from UTG straddle ---
V1 open 15 (he always uses this sizing over 6$ and over 3$), V2 calls 15, V3 to 85, H sees T♦ T♣ from UTG...
LAG player on the button could 3bet a wide range.
I’m going to call and see a flop. If I felt this guy would respect my 4bet and fold, I’d be happy to take it down right now, but LAG players can have strong hands too. Also, I’m just guessing you don’t have a TAG image that would make him pause.
If the flop comes with low cards, I want the LAG to keep firing, so no 4bet, but probably a check-raise on the flop.
Obviously, got to tiptoe if overcards show up. In this scenario, depending on the action, I can get away from this hand, rather than be outplayed.
My theory with 99, TT, JJ, maybe 88 is if no overcards come on the flop, I’m coming at you, probably ready to play for stacks. On the other hand, when overcards flop, I’m likely going to fold to pressure. Is this a good plan?
Doesn't seem like a great spot to be OOP against two decent sounding players where you're only going to be happy if you hit a set. I would fold this pretty happily, and might make a tight fold with JJ tbh. Cold 4betting seems pretty ambitious here and cold calling would narrow you to a ridiculously small range.
That's a large 3bet -- does he always do that? I like a call since you are in the straddle -- you can be insanely wide "defending" your straddle. It would suck if V1 4bets, though. TT is just too strong to fold vs this lineup, but I don't like a 4bet -- unless V3's sizing is a tell. Also, how do they see you?
This hits all the notes ...
LAG crusher playing 1-3, and making 2.5x pot 3bets on the BTN for 25%+ of everyone's stack.
Whale opens to 2.5bb, but to be fair he "only 4bets" AQs,JJ+.
H straddled and has less than 100bb effective, with a decent pair (but bottom of top 5% range).
Depending on vibes or whatever, I guess you can make a case for shoving if "LAG" guy is actually wide and not only top 5%+.
Folding is the obvious move, as you are only slightly in front of top 10% range.
Calling seems like obviously the worst option. If you want to do that instead take a $20 out of your wallet and set it on fire, then choose one of the other options ... you're welcome.
This hits all the notes ...LAG crusher playing 1-3, and making 2.5x pot 3bets on the BTN for 25%+ of everyone's stack.Whale opens to 2.5bb, but to be fair he "only 4bets" AQs,JJ+.H straddled and has less than 100bb effective, with a decent pair (but bottom of top 5% range).
Agreed. These positions and stack depth it's shove or fold and most certainly never a flat. I'd shove because a ''LAG Crusher'' should have a very wide 3b range here but if someone would prefer a fold and take the low variance route I wouldn't hate it. Just don't call.
That's a large 3bet -- does he always do that I like a call since you are in the straddle -- you can be insanely wide "defending" your straddle. It would suck if V1 4bets, though. TT is just too strong to fold vs this lineup, but I don't like a 4bet -- unless V3's sizing is a tell. Also, how do they see you
Yeah don't do this.
There are times to call in games like this, and this is one of them. If LAG does this only with strong hands or if you are not comfortable post flop, fold away. Of course, your image matters, too, and we still don't know that (at this table).
I'm fine with a shove, too (if LAG is wide).
There are times to call in games like this, and this is one of them. If LAG does this only with strong hands or if you are not comfortable post flop, fold away. Of course, your image matters, too, and we still don't know that (at this table).
I'm fine with a shove, too (if LAG is wide).
Not at this stack depth and these positions.
I'd rather have more behind, but these are the perfect players to be against. If you are not comfortable OOP post or not rolled to rebuy if something ridiculous happens, fold is perfectly fine.
I'd rather have more behind, but these are the perfect players to be against. If you are not comfortable OOP post or not rolled to rebuy if something ridiculous happens, fold is perfectly fine.
This is cute but a bad call is just exactly that. A bad call.
You keep making them though and keep reloading! Good for the games.
Keep folding.
I feel sorry for people who get personal and mean here. Sometimes it's just a bad day, but you must have a bad/sad life -- sorry for you.
Let's meet up in Vegas and play against each other. I usually play PLO there, but I'll play NLHE with you.
I should be there during WSOP. I’ll drop down a handful of stakes and play 1/2 with you sure.
Sorry for the derail banana and those who read this.
Sorry, Banana 😉 I'll play 5/10. I have a conference at the end of July, so WSOP is tough for me (haven't made it yet), but I'll be in touch. Usually there four times a year.
Banana, carry on.
Everyone's reads on everyone else:
V1 sees himself as decent player, V2 as a straightforward ABC, V1 has never met V3 until now
V2 knows nobody including himself
V3 has been playing V1 for a few hours at this point and seen him cold 4bet shove AQs and JJ for ~2-300$, I imagine he's picked up that V1 is a fishy player, for sure he sees V2 as an ABC loose passive, V3 has played with me several times in the past but not recently I dont know how he views me but we've battled before.
My estimation of V3's range (but I'm not very sure): A9+ KT+ QTs+ 77+
Easy shove I guess.
I do prefer a call to a fold.
Post is going to be tricky sometimes, but we often have the best hand with 2 poor players who might come along. Good things can happen.
The unfortunate thing is we have exactly what LAG crusher will put us on. But I think we see a lot of 3 and 4 way flops.
Against a lag 3bet I'm pretty happy just shoving here. I don't want to call and play oop with Tens.
Agreed. These positions and stack depth it's shove or fold and most certainly never a flat. I'd shove because a ''LAG Crusher'' should have a very wide 3b range here but if someone would prefer a fold and take the low variance route I wouldn't hate it. Just don't call.
This falls under why are you betting? Because he’s wide and will fold - but if he calls you’re likely beat.
So, you won’t make a better hand fold, and what worse hand calls?
I dislike friction when there’s a lot of ways to skin a cat. Saying this is what you do and you’re a stupid loser if you don’t - just isn’t really good for this forum.
Everyone has good ideas sometimes.
Whether you do this or that in one situation surely doesn’t make you a good or bad player.
But at least it wasn’t me this time
Probably will be now
I lose respect for those that put down others in a place where ideas are thrown around.
I vote that it's a 4-bet or fold spot, and given effective stacks and the 3-bet size basically a shove or fold spot. If the range you put the lag on is accurate I think a shove would probably be best. However, I do question whether he's really 3-betting with some of those hands.
Also I'm down for railing a java-pablito heads up match during WSOP if java can make it work with their schedule. Heads up for rolls would be more exciting but I guess 5/T would do 😀
Vague HH with V3 from ages ago (don't remember stacks exactly, looked for the thread but couldn't find it):
H in CO 3-bets someone in EP with AQss, V3 on BTN 4! 2.5x, folds back and I call, HU.
Flop - A-J-T one ♠
H checks, V3 bets small, H calls
Turn - A-J-T-8 no flush draw
H checks, V3 bets 1.5x pot, H calls
River - total blank like Ad-Js-Tc-8h-3c
H checks, V says "okay okay" and checks back, I win vs V3's pocket 77.
