Triple A credit rating and V is selling diamonds

You consistently have the most entertaining threads and this one is particularly good. Well done.

That said, I don’t think this is even close to a fold. He’s gonna have to show me a better hand.

i think if you were ever going to check the flop this prob the time to do it. if not id bet smaller. i see the villain descriptions but yeah

I don't like checking the flop. There is a flush draw out there. Also, it is hard for villains to catch anything that doesn't beat you. If you had TT or T62, r, that might be a good slow play, because villains could catch higher pairs.

Bet was 1/3 pot and he got 2 callers, so I don't like going even smaller.

On the river, it isn't great that you have the Ad, so he can't be bluffing with the nut blocker.

I would have shoved the turn so as to get it in with at least 40% equity, but might lose action.

people are always gonna have some amount of equity lol. it seem unlikely to me that v2 is 5 pfr if hes opening so going to kind of bias the sim but

flush draw just isnt that concerning when they each have a fd ~5% of the time when u have ad (less if they end up here with more offsuit hands than i assigned them). is just a difficult board for them to have much given your hand

re the 5 pfr i gave v2 ~12% of hands and v1 ~15%

i get these are two guys you don't need to refer to solver for but i think its worth understanding exactly much of their calling / stack off ranges you block with your hand. good things can also happen when you check.

is also very clear turn call and river call to me

tbh goes smaller if i let it. again like yeah these guys are going to make calling mistakes but i just unconvinced the best way to do that is to shovel money in early w our exact hand

When we block both the flush draw and top pair, checking flop looks good especially when we can continue across flushing turns. I don't see the point in raising turn, only folds out worse including single diamonds so call is clearly best. River close, having the Ad sways me to a call but mostly we're hoping for a set (which looks a very odd postflop line to take with a set unless it's turned 44) or complete air - and what would this be, 54ss or something? However, price + top set + blocker still looks like a call although I don't think folding would be terrible

You played this just fine imo; call River.

Yeah, call river. He could have worse for value.

I don't see the point of a slow play on the flop. Yes, we block top pair and the nut flush draw. However, it a static board with an ace high flop. It someone makes a pair on the turn, he will know it is likely not good. There aren't that many outs for someone to hit a set. Don't see how villains can improve easily.

I really like the way you played this. I’m afraid I would have raised the turn and ran him off.

Sure does act like he’s got that flush. Call

Sidenote: 1/4 pot donk on the turn is a weak made hand in my mind most of the time. That’s why my gut instinct is to raise and take it down. If he shoved the turn, I’d be more worried, but still call.

If you folded, it really doesn’t fit your profile

If he shoved the turn, it would be a really easy call. If he shoved the turn and turned a flush face up, it would be an easy call. You were 39% against a flush on the turn, so you have odds to call regardless.

I think in a live 1/3 game I'd check the flop - really it's a spot where your getting 1 street of value at best unless they improve so I'd hope to check the flop and they make a pair on the turn/river. Can always get that 1 street on the turn or river, and maybe they improve/call 2 streets given we checked the flop. As played I think I'm calling even though technically we only beat bluffs, the draws got there, etc. We're getting to 3 to 1, maybe he has some sets/two pair in there, and we played this where we're underepped

Grunch:

PRE - looks good. I might size up a tad, but your 5x raise from OOP seems standard.

FLOP - with top set as the PFR on this board, in a 3BP, I think we could bet really small, like $25, to force them to defend with their entire range, or go for a small over-bet, like $275, to target their FD's and any sets or 2P they may have, all of which are likely to be inelastic.

I don't much like the $75 bet. We're not doing anything to help define their ranges one way or the other. And we're giving their draws a really good price to try and suck out.

I'd prefer to just go for max value and target their FD's and any 2P or sets they may have.

TURN - we don't love the 4d that brings in the flush (or LOL-52), but obviously we're not folding. Not sure why we'd tank, unless we're thinking about raising. Are we?

A raise with the Ad in our hand would be interesting. We have top set with tons of outs to fill up, make the nut flush, or possibly a straight, if that somehow matters. Not sure I see the point at this SPR though. V either has it or he's doing something stupid, and we wouldn't want to stop him. Would he even fold for another $290?

Then again, why wouldn't he just donk jam for around pot if he turned a flush?

RIVER - yuck.

Based on our limited reads, we might think he's capable of over-valuing a worse hand. But does he have any bluffs? And what worse hands does he have that want to donk turn? Maybe 44, A4, or 43? Is he just putting us on AX, or the NFD, and thinking some 2P or set is good?

I don't love it, but I don't see how we fold top set getting these odds. Just seen too many spaz-lines at these stakes to find the hero fold now.

Just read the rest of the thread. I'd be on board with checking flop if we thought V2 is likely to stab, but I don't think he's stabbing anywhere near often enough in a 3BP on an ace-high board. I think the flop just gets checked through a ton, and we'll often end up in a guessing game on later streets.

OP makes both V's sound like droolers, so I'd think we could get more value just betting our hand. A small bet might get more value from better players, but against these two I just want to pile it in before they give up with their missed draws or downgraded / worse value.

The fact that V2 calls flop next to act and then folds on the diamond turn should lead us to think he's floating pretty wide, and we can get more value from him on early streets. Likewise, with V1 over-calling from OOP, we can probably get more value from him, too.

Bet tiny flop, they can’t have much and we want them to make mistakes by continuing or bluffing.

We do? With topset and the nut flush blocker in a 3b pot?

I agree with betting small on flop, check is probably the best option and overbet on flop is just pure spew. Just makes 0 sense blocking literally everything. Small bet probably gets raised 100% of the time by 2p+ and holding the Ad they don't have enough fds in their range to justify overbetting flop.

As played we're obviously never folding.

You 3!, so you are expected to cbet the ace-high flop. Checking maybe represents JJ-KK. They can't have much, but it is also hard for them to make anything on later streets.

Think checking flop is a lot better vs. anyone with a clue, who can try to bluff you off KK etc.

Checking here is mostly hoping that someone turns some equity and decides to bet and/or call our turn bet. Would much rather bet 55-65, as even 75 gets more folds normally (but maybe not against these guys, so gg).

Would be tempted to shove turn for a bunch of different reasons, esp. after tanking for a minute. Calling might well be more GTO though.

River sucks a lot, but V needs to have a flush over 75% of the time here and not just be going for value with 44/98 or even have some weird bluff.

Yeah, I agree checking flop is better versus good players, representing KK/QQ and inducing bluffs.

Call down. I think betting a lot smaller otf is better but you got two calls so nh.

I like the small cbet idea to induce/encourage them to continue. Turns out they thought 1/3rd was small...

Result:

I am Jack's utter amazement.

Awesome lol. The results delivered.

Pretty good example of why you don't want to shove the turn here, although I wouldn't be too surprised if V1 called anyway.

No one ever expects to see a bluff here, but fish do so much weird merge-y stuff. Just have to let 'em do their thing and click the call button.