2/5: Nut FD + gutter vs rec’s donk/3b-jam

I'm fine with the raise on the flop with plans to gii, although it's unexpected. Weird line by V unless he has a set or KXcc (lets hope)? Maybe A4?

Snap call.

Raising flop is perfectly fine, and I don't think that we need to wait for the turn.

This all wheel card 2-flush flop is a notorious wet action flop. I would probably just flat call with this hand, even though it seems strong. However, easy call to shove. You are probably the underdog, but you have odds to call.

Flop 3bet HU is always a draw which we dominate so easy get it in.

If he has a pair and draw like 65s or 44, you are about even. Kind of optimistic for him to play like KcJc that way. You block combo draws like 7c6c or 7c4c.

However, you absolutely have to call as played.

Wow
This kinda messes up the reads, because a little donk is usually top pair or another vulnerable hand trying to slow you down.

I would have raised too.

But this is obviously not the read this time. With this action, I’m betting he flopped the straight. Thus, you have to hit to win.

I’m the old tight guy looking at the 4 and 2 rule and about 36% chance to complete, so I fold. Without fold equity, I don’t like this situation.

Now, I glanced down and see not too many other posters are tight like me. If villain has the same draw, you’re a lock, but I’m not thinking theory here - unknown shoves, they got it

Until I see different

I am not sure if this hand is strong enough to raise with on this wet board. Others might disagree. But very easy call and you are raising to fold.

Grunch:

V's typically have a real hand when they donk multi-way on a wet and dynamic board, even when the bet size is small.

With so much equity in our hand, I don't think it's a huge mistake to raise, but I'd probably just flat call, and look to play poker on later streets. As played, it's pretty gross when V jams.

I'm guessing we need to make our straight or our flush, so we have 12 outs. Probably correct to call it off.

I disagree with docvail here. This donkbet DOES NOT screami strength at all...his range is more likely to be middling to weak. Just put in the flop raise with our very strong draw.

Fish universally always go for the fancy check-raise with nutted hands, especially multiway because they expect someone else to do the betting for them on a scary board. With so many people in the hand surely someone must have something right? No way would they ever lead with the nuts just to let someone call them and 'suckout', they want to make sure they can blast off getting you to bet first. They donk when they want to "see where they're at" which is universally some crap pair that just hopes everyone folds. Remember, they aim to win hands, not money. The 3bet get it allin converts their "pay to see" strategy to an investment strategy. They wanted to take it down with jack high, that didnt work but they have some equity with their draw so best to just buy the dip and hope it pays off in the end. They dont rely on FE to play their draws and dont even know what a semi-bluff is. They are results oriented to the core. To them it isnt a bluff if they hit their flush therefore they got it in good even if you show them a set. Once you see it from that perspective you can see how a nut flush draw crushes their range in this exact scenario.

Of course call as played, and the raise may be best HU. The thing is on this wet dynamic board, his leading range should be strong. So much connects with this board. Unlikely you are lucky enough to run into a lower flush draw. He shouldn't be leading with just a low pair and wouldn't shove with that. Think you are flipping a lot, rather than way ahead or behind to a straight or set.

I disagree with this take on this small donkbet. You are giving this guy's donkbet way too much credit

Donks in HU pots are often BS. Donks in multi-way pots are more often a real hand being bet for value and protection.

The more dynamic and wet the board, the more likely they actually have a hand that doesn't want action to get checked through.

I know that you believe this, but no matter how much you believe it... doesn't actually make it true

36% equity is a reasonable estimate for what Hero's equity looks like in this spot, but that doesn't mean Hero should fold here.

Hero needs to call $310 to win what will be a final pot of $915. That means Hero needs 34% equity to profitably call this spot.

If Villain plays inferior draws or single pair hands this way, Hero's equity goes way up too.

I’m not sure having equity is enough

Maybe people are getting out of line more in this game, but in my 1/3 games the math is less important, because a light 4Bet never happens. He ‘might’ show up with 2pair, but you’re not gonna win unimproved.

I like to semi-bluff this type of hand when I have fold equity, but it’s hard to talk me into simply chasing flush draws. Not my kind of gamble.

You have odds to call the push as played. You have odds to call if he showed you a straight. You have better than 36%, because he could have 2 pair or a pair and straight draw, as well as a lower flush draw, which you crush.

I wouldn't raise, not because of some read of what a donkbet means from a donk. Just because I don't think our hand is all that strong on the wet board.

Having equity is definitely enough here. We don't even have to speculate about Villain's range. This is a pot odds call even against the nuts. Calling off in this spot wins money and folding would be a significant mistake.

It's definitely reasonable to prefer to play your draws aggressively to capitalize on fold equity. But there are some situations where it is correct to passively "chase" and this is one of them.

???

Having the equity to call is not a matter of opinion. Unless you tried to say ''I am not sure we have enough equity to call here'' the highlighted isn't only wrong, it's straight up bizarre.

What about his donk-jam? Does that scream strength, or do we still think he's FOS?

We are probably about 42% once we are shoved, so way ahead of pot odds, so easy call.

I don't like the raise for that reason, that you have to gii the underdog if you get pushed on. Then if you are called, you could get pushed on in position after missing the turn, and you would have to fold.

You are 43% against 53s for 2 pair, 46% against 44 for pair and OESD, 32% against a set, 37% against a straight, 72% against Kc4c, 82% against KcQc. What do you need: 34%? You have way enough equity to call once you raise and get shoved on.

I don't think a lower flush draw is likely because most of them that would be strong enough to shove with would have either Ac or 7c, but you still have to call.