JJ played passively - river decision

Seems okay overall.

These are reasons to open and open huge. Not to limp behind with JJ which is a premium pair. It also gains some additional EV being on the btn as it should be a lot easier for us to play this hand in position. You want to punish limpers when you have strong hands and JJ is exactly that.

Pre is not good. As played the hand is fine I guess.

Agree - this table dynamic is the perfect place to put in a nice big raise with position preflop. Really hate overlimping here as getting to play a big pot with JJ IP is what I am waiting for versus a sticky passive table. You're 43% to flop an overpair which isn't really "middling" value.

Yeah, as played it seems fine post. Tripling off for that size on that river at a passive table is very likely a better hand.

I'll look at this in terms of a 1/3 NL game 150bbs deep.

Preflop, we have a really good hand and are in position. We're completely cool making this a slightly bigger game and juicing the pot a little. Even if a 7x raise is called in two spots we'll still create a fairly playable SPR of 7 in position, and an even more playable spot if it gets it HU (which isn't an absurd outcome after 2 limps to the Button). Our goal isn't to get all worse hands to fold preflop in order to steal a measly amount of blinds. Heck, we could even go anywhere from 2x - 5x just to build a pot a little (and not try to fold anyone out), a pot that we are going to win far more often than our opponents due to position and hand strength.

Anyhoo, here we are in a small multiway limped pot. FWIW, I often get myself in these spots due to having a very LRR method OOP. Facing this flop action, I would actually just quietly fold. Yeah, sometimes we fold the best hand here (such as against a smaller overpair), but it's not a big mistake due to the pot being so small.

And kinda ditto when he follows up on the turn. If we're calling off too many streets here in these small meaningless limped pots with just one pear we're kinda making it profitable for others to see cheap flops with almost anything.

And river is a trivial fold when he continues when the overcard comes (as hands like TT-88 are just checking now and attempting to showdown).

GcluelessNLnoobG

I think what I’m gathering is that you expected not to be able to get heads up, so you didn’t raise pre-flop.

You have to raise here, you’re in position and want the initiative, even if you can’t reduce the field. Most likely the guy with 32 or A7 folds now, but you let them in by not raising.

As played, I’m raising the flop to 8bb. You’ve got too good of a hand to show no resistance and this seems like a good time. You gave him no reason to fear you.

I think you played passively, so villain kept firing (Asians are often aggressive). And because he kept firing, you put him on nut-like hands. You might be right, you were there, I wasn’t, but you might consider putting some pressure on villain when you have a strong hand. What did villain think you had?

When you have the initiative, villain checks to the raiser, you can take a free card, now what does he do? That king on the river now smashes your range, what’s his reaction?Become a threat to your villain, and see if he keeps coming.

We want 32/A7 to fold preflop in a pot with no real dead money when we're in position and a better player with an awesum hand?

Again you take the most aggro action on the flop, and again you really have to ask yourself what this accomplishes. We only have one pear versus a world donker and a raiser; we hardly have a monster. The board is drawless so no one is semi-bluffing / there's no draws to protect against. If your opponents are somehow awful enough to dump money in with worse against a fricken flop cold re-raise, then awesum. But otherwise, you're mostly getting worse to fold and better to continue.

And why in the world would we want to show aggression / make our opponent fear our hand / become a threat to our opponent if being passive is going to get him to barrel worse into us over multiple streets? I'd actually be totally on board with the flop/turn calldowns for this reason (if it wasn't for the fact that the flop was actually raised, which is just too often a stronger hand than ours, at least ime).

IMO, you have to be more like water, but you're just constantly lava.

Gnothatin',justsayin'G

I respect quoting the great philosopher Bruce Lee, may he rest in peace.

lol, maybe so - but it’s hard to convince me to be a calling station. Seems a crime to have an over pair to top pair and never once say
Hey mister, I think I’ve got the best hand here.

Early aggression can make later play easier and getting away from a hand cheaper

Or we can just call along, convince ourselves we’re beat & fold. If I can get people to fold jacks that easy, I should be barreling more.

Talk to me gg
I’m still trying to understand, cause I do get burned sometimes finding out I’m firing into a set. I know it doesn’t help, but I’m pretty good with nunchucks.

If we think we have the best hand on the flop, is it a good idea or bad idea to let our opponent know that's what we think? With monsters on drawy boards where there are a bunch of worse hands they may want to continue / against massive calling stations / not against people who are willing to bet/fold against the old guy, it's probably fine. With extremely mediocre hands on drawless boards where very few worse hands can continue, not so much. Meanwhile a passive calldown on early streets let's us use our position and hand reading skills to figure out on later streets the type of hand he most likely has where we can make decent decisions.

I mean, is there a lotta cold reraises (i.e. bet - raise - reraise) on the flop in your game and a lotta people continuing to those? What are they showing up with?

GimoG

I stopped reading when you didn't raise JJ. Don't do that.

Beginning to come around, you did advocate a preflop raise - I think it threw me with the small sizes. Kinda used to flop bet 40 raise 120
Yea, then I fold jacks

Might get away with redlining with my image, but I get it, I need more awareness of situations where it’s better to slow down. Thanks

As a football coach, I had a very good feel for who needed to be pushed and who needed to be pulled along. I can push people off hands, but I need to improve my pulling them along to showdown.

Thank you all for the very helpful answers!

Limping behind JJ is just terrible in pretty much any situation, particularly on the button. If they are calling raises, raise and build the pot with your good hands. Limping premium hands, particularly without the intent and situation to 3!, is a donk play.

You really cut into your expected profit on a flop like this by keeping it limped preflop.