1/3 observed hand, flopped boat facing downbet
Was trying to think of a good hand from yesterday and though I wasn’t involved, this one was interesting.
Villain was unknown, young, apparently studied and by the end of the day, I thought he was a strong player.
Hero was new old, not elderly if that makes sense, but a pretty steady player, not getting out of line much. I have played with him a lot, he makes good decisions overall and is willing to peel sometimes with second pair. If there is a middle of the road between passive and aggressive, he’s right there playing each style at times. Assuming he didn’t know villain either.
500 effective 1/3 button straddle
Villain MP opens huge to 40
Hero HJ tanks shortly and calls
(90) Flop TTK
V bets 35 and hero flashes me in the CO - KK
What does Hero do with kings in this spot?
19 Replies
I think just call. That makes the pot 160 with 425 behind. If Villain has something, stacks should be going in by the river. If Villain does not have something, he gets a chance to improve to second-best.
This is a more interesting decision if we were deeper or the pot started out smaller.
Flop seems like an easy call, we pretty much crush the deck and don't need to raise flop to get stacks in.
I prefer to 3bet KK preflop instead of flatting here though I guess maybe 8% of stack PFR does the heavy lifting for us.
Flat of KK is typical of a 1/3 donk, but really bad, particularly against the huge raise. Villain likely has JJ or AK or something and isn't folding to the 3!
I would flat the flop in position. Also, wouldn't flash my hand.
I wouldn't bother forming a raising range OTF.
Preflop's a little more interesting than initially meets the eye. Believe it or not, I have analyzed this spot because of an incredibly stupid hand that will haunt me forever even though I think I played it perfectly. KK's probably too strong to flat assuming there aren't enormous marks LTA, but there are often enormous marks LTA at a 1/3 table...
Don't share reads that you didn't have at the time the hand was played.
Hero calls
(160) turn TTK6
Villain bets 110
Hero?
Villain sizing perfectly to get stacks in 160 + 220 = 380 with 310 behind. Flat turn, jam river if villain doesn't.
I would flat turn. Not many draws and have position. Villain may bluff the river if has QJ.
I thought it was clear in op
Not much limping in my games bro
He bet, I called - everyone folded
Can only straddle 6
and approximate pot (90)
Actually, it wasn’t me at all
It was the hero
What Werebeer wrote: flat, shove river if he checks.
TTK6
V bets 100
This is where hero erred in my opinion
He was impatient and jammed
Villain folded
He should have called one more time and let villain keep charging, but he let him get away from his hand. Nothing was shown, but I think he folded aces.
It so important to know what kind of villain you’re dealing with. Many recreationals could never fold aces in this spot and that line likely works. But thinking players make good laydowns, and you have to be aware of that.
Jam is awful. Not sure I could put hero on trips or better and fold aces. Wouldn't think someone would play trips+ that way. However, boat could get value bets or bluffs from weaker hands than AA.
Why would he ever raise on flop or turn when everything is set up perfectly? Can’t lose the hand, position, opponent barreling putting stacks in play. Just let him do his thing.
And raise pre, this guy is never folding to a 3b after a big open.
Yeah hero should just call again. Players like this often have preset lines like "I will raise as a trap exactly 1 street after getting a monster hand". He would probs have raised flop had it not given him a boat, like an 843tt flop.
Still I think there is some thought particular to the turn raise: if villain has a drawing hand semi bluff (eg QJ/AQ), he may not put the rest of his stack on the river if he misses, while he may call the raise due to pot odds
Pros and cons to flatting a monster preflop. The shorter the stack the more this is ok, as we can trivially get in stacks postflop plus it offers horrendous IO to anyone else who wants to tag along (so we're fine with inviting someone else along and committing against them). The drawback is it may allow hands like AK / QQ on a A/K flop / etc. get away from hands they otherwise wouldn't have preflop. We're only ~83bbs deep with the straddle on, so if Villain is a good player would could fold to a 3bet, and with no other dead money in the pot, I think the flat is ~ok.
Exposing the hand to another player while still in the hand could sometimes get this hand killed in my room.
Seems like a trivial flat on the flop (ETA: and turn, as others have said) as we can easily get in stacks by the river, our hand is invulnerable, there's not many scare cards to kill action, and we don't want to force Villain into a hero fold / prevent his barrel bluffing.
Gpreflopwaymoreinterestingthanpostflop,imoG
Exposing the hand to another player while still in the hand could sometimes get this hand killed in my room
Gpreflopwaymoreinterestingthanpostflop,imoG
Let me be clear
This is something I would never do.
But it’s not that uncommon
I’ve seen a lot of people do it over the years.
I think people get excited and want to share
I didn’t ask for this to happen and immediately thought I may have hurt his cause with an expression of surprise at the monster.
It’s a weird dynamic
The guy’s friendly, I’m not going to say don’t do that anymore. I’m in no position to tell anyone what to do.
My usual in awkward situations
I just shrug and say nothing