Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Yeah I would never call KQ there. Even seeing the reveal, I'm not sure it's the correct play. Interesting to think about what the threshold is for calling off in that spot with limited reads.

Nice of V1 to give the free information there, that strikes me as a pretty valuable showdown. I am 90% sure I played with the same guy yesterday (ridiculously talkative, clearly rich, and claimed to be retired despite being relatively young) and after seeing that HH I think I may have gotten bluffed in one spot against him.

1/3 300 max bet

Thinking tag reg (420) opens 15 CO

We are in small blind and 3bet AQss to 60 he calls

Flop (120) Ks js 6h

I 100 he calls

Turn 8h (320)

I jam like 270

Sizing up flop to jam good here or is flop sizing too big?

this is 99% of why i post here - which is why i love this thread

obviously go bigger but probably wouldn't matter much and if you go too big then you're in an even worse spot where you're only facing hands which dominate you and now in a very bloated pot with mediocore cards which is worse than multiway where you likely have one of the better hands and a big postflop edge

i think fold is standard, as said, you're losing to a lot of ax bluffs - just something to keep note of for next time to call off with top pair or better

Looks fine to me. Maybe slightly smaller on flop to jam turn for the full $300 is my preference but doesn’t make much difference.

minor nitpick but disagree with this because it'll look way bluffier imo if you're setting up a bet with 300 behind

you in seattle? which room?

Yeah This hand took place at aces. How would you play hands like AA, AK, JJ, KK here? I realized after hand v might have a correct read that I might try to go like 60 120 180 with value here which would make this sizing very unbalanced. So maybe I should be going for the smaller sizing and triple barrel exploitatively? Or just make sure to also size up and jam turn in future with value in similar spots

truth be told, once you said thinking reg and you are oop i'm happy to flat pre and just underrep my hand as a bluff catcher in a much smaller pot

1-3 is so terribad that there's no real reason to opt to play for stacks with a hand you don't want to play for stacks with against one of a maximum of 3 competent players at the table

thinking tag reg is not the guy i want to play for stacks with oop with a penultimate hand

but i would have check shoved the flop - if he checks back then any non flush/straight turns you just check/call and hope for a free river card because your line looks incredibly bluffy and then on the river you either have the nuts or air and can decide to either give up or take a stab at it if you miss or go huge for value if you hit

AA/AK/KK i'm 3! but larger to setup a flop shove

JJ i'm flatting - it'd terrible against any range of his which calls and would check shove the flop and if it gets checked through shove turn

aces is where i mostly play these days, just started new job but should still be playing at least a few hours each week

meh spot.

2/5/10 there's a limp from MP, button calls, SB calls and I call straddle with 75hh

Flop (42) is 765ddc, BB leads for 25, I call button calls

Turn (117) is 4d. BB bets 40, I call, button folds

River (197) is an offsuit 2. BB bets 200.

BB is a very aware and experienced, winning mid stakes reg - I've been playing with him for a decade. Definitely capable of 3 street bluffing with a flush draw, definitely aware that my range is capped

whole hand is fairly dirty - not sure I can raise at any time, but given the flush draw and this villain...can I fold?

thoughts on each street?

i feel like you could easily be playing 8x that way, given that i'm happy to fold river

Do you guys think that live, players are more likely to hero call and call double and triple barrels if they're playing blind vs. blind (or straddle vs. blind) than in other configurations?

If true, the reasons would be psychological, like if you defend BB against a HJ raise, it feels like they're doing the normal thing one does in the HJ, which is opening some hands. But if SB is barreling into your BB, it feels like they're trying to steal. What a ***, I'll show them. Like there's an incredulity about believing that they hit something when they're the last player to act. And they only have to bluff out one person, so they have more motivation to. Something like that. Does anyone think this is a real pattern? Idk how often you guys even play blind vs blind in the states rather than just chop, but here it's pretty common.

I mostly play non-timed games where blinds pretty much always chop, but if people glance at open ranges from HJ vs. SB limp/raise ranges then this makes sense.

On the other side, if anyone limps then most of the ranges I see for people limping in SB are even wider than GTO fold to SB ranges with no rake.

Don’t think we’re ever getting a K to fold given the stack sizes and betting constraints.

I prefer betting small on this flop so V continues with some Jx and ggsd which we will be able to fold out on the turn.

Yes but not because of psychological reasons. The configurations you mention are ones where ranges will be widest.

So because ranges are wider, people expect other people to bluff more so they have to rationally call wider?

Idk if I buy that as a mechanism. I doubt most people are doing genuine how-many-bluffs-should-my-opponent-have-in-this-spot analysis.

They’re doing more blind v blind than they’re doing in any other spot…other than perhaps button v bb

Where starting ranges are wider, then presumably value bets are also wider, meaning we should call lighter as well.

I always chop, unless the other person wants to play, so I only play blind vs blind in tournaments. None of y’all know me, so I don’t mind telling you I’m winning that confrontation whether small or big and no matter the cards.

I will keep raising until you buckle or knock me out of tournament. It’s amazing how easy people give up. King of Random will tell you those chips add up….

….and what’s wrong with the button wimping out and allowing this confrontation anyway

last night - 1/3 in seattle so $300 cap

i look at racist Queens utg with about $800 behind and make it 20, i get 2 callers

one is a mega fish MABG (but white collar) on the CO who plays every hand and has about 150 behind

the other caller is a MAAG who seems pretty competent at the BB (probably 2nd best at table after me) and has about 600 behind - i've only played a few orbits with him and don't recognize him but he's a typical TAG player and seems to be pretty good - has shown squeezes and 3! but doesn't auto squeeze whenever there's a chance to do it (and there's been a lot of good squeeze pots he had where just folded or called) so he's not reckless

pot is 61 pre rake, flop comes 887hh

MABG checks and I make it $40, co folds (damnit) and maag pretty much insta pops it to $100, so much that i'm unsure if he's calling or raising because it was so fast and seemingly thoughtless

i make the call, pot is 261 pre rake

turn is a black King

bb checks, and i am now bluff catching as far as i'm concerned so i check behind after thinking for a few seconds

river is Th, completing the flush and some straight draws

bb thinks for about 30 seconds, so much that i'm unsure if he checked and i somehow missed it, just when i'm about to ask if the decision is on me - he bets 300 (the max allowable) with about 200 behind

I tank for a while, i feel like if i didn't have the Qh this would be a relatively easy fold

i also think the Th actually leans towards bluffing as a lot of the straights he'd play is 9T variety, far less 96 out there, but wouldn't put it past him to play 96s (although we know it wasn't anything better than a boat because he didn't table a high hand after, meaning we either got bluffed or he had 8x or a flush)

anyway, i ultimately opted to fold, the way he played it seemed very similar to how people play flush draws - he didn't reveal, but i asked him what he'd have done if the river wasn't a heart and he mumbled something to the effect of "i'd only be bluff catching then" which kind of implies Kxhh, but it can't be AK since that would probably 4! and we have Qh so and Th on board so KJhh or K9hh only real viable options unless he's a bigger donk than we gave him credit for

idk, wondering how others would have played this - didn't want to play for stacks on the flop because only 8x calls there (JJ or draws etc would likely fold if i ripped it), i feel like i missed a bet on the turn, that feels obvious to me now because he he had 8x, i imagine he would have continued barreling given how many draws were on the table - but idk if he's folding to any amount on the turn given i can't shove but only go a slight pot overbet

definitely felt like he was value heavy and was worried my thoughts of having the Qh was messing with me

ran it on gtowiz

obviously not ideal approximation for live and need to x out the co

it doesn't like my sizing on the flop, opting more often for smaller bets or checking with my hand

wiz also thinks only 8x or hearts should xr here - which agree is how most live players would do it too

it agrees with my call, says i gotta do that every time

it also agrees with bb checking the turn with most 8x and hearts

and it agrees with my checkback

interestingly, there's very few large bets from bb on that river, even if they have it

8x

flush

only hands that go big there are 88, 87 and 77

even T8 goes small

my options

so obviously this is jacked up - doesn't account for multi players, doesn't account for live tendencies (didn't want to node lock given when i try to get fancy on here i usually use up free usage before finish)

idk, just looking for a sanity check

in this 1/3 live pool, is river just a disciplined fold vs competent TAG population?

did i miss a thin/protection bet on the turn?

is flop cbet just too ambitious multiway on this texture?

does the Qh meaningfully change the river decision live, or is that solver brain leaking in? - what i find really interesting is solver slightly prefers calling with the non racist Qh combos of queens

am i overthinking this or is this just a standard save $300 spot

Yeh, the only things I'd do differently is either bet a bit smaller on the flop and sometimes check even with the third player.

Also think BB can call a bit wider here given the terrible player is behind you, and you are only ~57% vs. Ah6h/Kh9h ... turn check is weird, and it's possible he's doing it for value with Kxs or because he just has A high. So even with a time machine I wouldn't want to bet turn. Him saying it was a bluff catch hand could be either too.

I think you did OK. I think the end looked like a I waited for you to catch up, but now I can't wait any longer bet. But it's crazy to offer an opinion without being there.

I don't like c-betting 2/3 pot. I'd prefer to either check, bet small, like 1/3 pot or less, or over-bet.

Not sure what to make of V's 2.5x x/r. It may be a sizing tell, like he's making a stop raise to stop us from barreling and buy himself a cheap ticket to see the river, or it could be a function of the stack depth, or a function of our larger c-bet size, or he's got a monster and he's just milking us.

When he checks the turn, I'd be suspicious. Like, if I'm V, and I flopped a monster, I wouldn't slow down on the off-suit K. I'd think that's a great card to barrel, because you could have so much AK that improves to TPTK, and because no draws came in.

I don't want to check back, and have to guess what to do when he bets the river. I don't want to give his draws a free look at the river. I don't think he'd be going for a double-check-raise, so I'd probably bet.

At this SPR, maybe bet 2/3 pot, like $170-$175, which leaves 1/2 pot going to the river. It's hard for V to have many, if any bluffs for 1/2 pot. If we bet $170 and he jams $480, it sucks, but it's a pretty trivial fold.

If he calls, and donk jams river on a draw-completing card, it's an easy fold. If he calls and checks river, we can just check back.

His "only bluff catching" comment makes me think he had the nut flush draw with no pair. Probably an AXhh combo with two overs and a BDSD that he didn't think was strong enough to 3B pre, so A9hh, or maybe AThh.

bet smaller on flop.

I'd bet turn. he can be check raising with a ton of flush and straight draws that whiffed and he can have 99 and 1010 too. turn is a bet/fold but it's a bet

river is meh but I think is a fold, but you've made it a ton more difficult for yourself by not betting turn

EDIT: but seriously, if you're gonna run sims and share a ton of charts then start a thread IMO

5/10 I have 1100

MP opens 25, fish on button calls I call bb with 75hh

Flop is 743ssc and checks around

Turn is Ac and opener bets 40 I call

River is 6c. I lead 100 and opener raises to 350

No real reads on villain. Youngish Asian guy. Feels reggy but we’ve been playing less than an orbit

What do you do?

(And yes, I think it might be a fold pre)

Hmmm...

I think we'd be better off using a smaller size when we donk. My reasoning is that the c/c-c/c-donk line is pretty under-bluffed, such that opponents tend to over-fold, and under-bluff when they raise.

I'm struggling to find V's bluffs that start with a bet on the turn when the BDFD comes in. I'd think he has it here a lot.

There's a possibility he's got something like A5ss and we're chopping, but that's a hand he might c-bet on the flop, and may not raise on the river.

Think we should fold.