Donk-call-donk line from unknown
1/3/6 NLHE 7 handed
I'm out of town at this other casino I play sometimes, it's on a highway so its easy to get to and with big windows so there's more light less of a grimey feeling, it runs 1/3, 1/3/6 and 2/5 regularly.. We sat down at 1/3 and then the table made it a 1/3/6 game by almost everyone agreeing. V did not agree to this and house basically said too bad.
V - Mid 30s white guy looks fishy. He's been VPIPing very low in the ~1 hour I've seen him. He's limp folded a few times. 1200$ SB.
HH - V opens 10 late position, asian nit woman clicks to 20 BTN, H sees ATcc in BB and 4-bets to 30 just to get a vibe, V snap 5-bets to 100, woman shoves, Banana split's and V has KK vs asian womans AA. V hits a set and doubles up (where he got his money from now).
---- H covers from LJ
One limp and we see A♠ T♣ and open 25, BTN cold calls, V calls SB, BB straddle and limper fold. 3-ways 2nd to act.
Flop 85 (1175, BTN has ~600) - T♠ 8♣ 3♠
V donks 25, H raises to 75, BTN folds, V calls
Turn 235 (1100) - 8♠
V donks 95, H to 700...
19 Replies
Are we trying to bluff him off an 8? Or get called by KsTx? I guess either is possible, everyone reacts differently to overbets, especially when they’re big relative to the game.
Flatting turn pot controls when he has a boat and keeps him in when he’s crushed.
Go home, Banana. You're drunk.
Don’t try to make Fish fold strong hands.
I’m on board with flop and would call turn.
You should start including your thought process per street so we’re not spending 80+ posts debating hands none of us would ever play like this trying to figure out why you did what you did.
Pre meh, flop meh.
Turn is just clicking buttons honestly. Raise meh, sizing terrible.
I don't hate pre and flop, but turn raise is ambitious -- and way too big.
I have a 0% raising range in the LJ but obviously lol @ me. Depending on how aggro the table is I might not even overlimp from here.
I'm not necessarily getting a fishy vibe from OP but rather a nitty vibe, but obviously lol @ Banana reads. So with this in mind, I'm not in love with our flop raise. I just call and see what happens.
I'm honestly having trouble ranging villain. Nothing in OP suggests he's the type to donk draws. But you'd think he go to the felt with a set on this drawy flop. Although I guess T8 might play like this. I guess just mostly targeting stuff like QQs/JJs/KQss and getting a nitty fold on a paired board where he can't have the nut flush? If so, not sure we need to go as much as we did (which really hurts when we punt into boats). Again, my read of OP leans to nitty for some reason, so I actually think I sigh fold.
GcluelessNLnoobG
Just call the flop donk. It's tempting to raise, but you're too deep and don't really want to get all the money in with TPTK here. I guess if you're going to raise, having the As redraw is a plus.
Turn, again just call. Keep his low equity bluffs in (if there are any). Realize equity and see what the river brings. Why are you turning top pair into a bluff? What do you do if he jams? The raise just seems unnecessary.
This is just bad. Flop raise isn't great either.
i think u r more likely to get called by worse ott than to fold out better lol even w ****** sizing
if you're vbing idk why u would choose this size w anything let alone your hand
I block top boat and top flush..
You are also already beating almost all of the hands that would fold to the raise. The big turn raise just isolates you against the top part of his range that has you crushed. If he folds you were probably ahead and you took away an opportunity for him to bluff and put more money in when he was behind. You're pretty much enabling him to play perfectly.
I mean ... I'd guess rando V flop donk / turn donk is like T8/98/Js9s/9s7s, where he had a pair and some equity on the flop or a big draw incl. flushes. Not sure what the rest of his flop donk range is, and given we have top pair and NFD blocker I don't hate the flop raise (although if he 3bets we have to fold) and from a low VPIP player I'd mostly not be doing it.
But turn raise looks like clicking buttons, esp. for this size. You are basically trying to bluff him off of 8x or a flush ... and _maybe_ some randos find a fold with 98, but I have enough problems trying to get randoms to fold top pair that I'm def. not trying to get them to fold "bad" flushes. Also some chance he has 33 or even one of the two TT/88 combos. and is praying you have the NF.
The size should look scary to everyone who doesn't know you are doing this stupidly wide, basically repping TT/88 pure so the As kind of hurts us.
Wouldn't trust randoms not to say "I can't fold this" and call it off anyway though, and they don't need to do it that often for it to be v. bad.
...but I have enough problems trying to get randoms to fold top pair that I'm def. not trying to get them to fold "bad" flushes.
...Wouldn't trust randoms not to say "I can't fold this" and call it off anyway though, and they don't need to do it that often for it to be v. bad.
Words to live by. Along with "They're not playing back at you."
The only reason B's other big recent thread isn't a snap fold to the jam is I think V recognizes B as one of the few who can fold a bad flush.
Tho megaoof at the "You're enabling them to play perfectly," in thread. Learning is often painful.
Result:
Spoiler
V goes in the tank and eventually folds saying he had Q♠ J♠ (doesn't show)
Did rando fold a flush? Maybe. Or he really had QT with the Q of spades.
I think you're on to something though regarding people at live low limit NL games massively overfolding to overbets (possibly you were inspired by that other thread where a lot of us were advocating for you to fold a full house). The trick is to target the twoplustwoers and avoid the icallbecauseihadaflush crowd.
I still wouldn't typically want to "waste" top pair top kicker with the nut flush redraw by turning it into a bluff. That hand has a lot a value without needing to turn it into a bluff. You can just play pot control in position, and possibly put in a value raise if you river a T or spade. You could still turn your hand into a bluff on the river too for that matter.
I guess if you had your opponent ranged well enough that you knew you were beat but thought you could get him to fold better, then nice hand. I probably would have just folded if I was confident he had a flush. 🤷
Banana, go post a reveal in your buried nuts thread.
I just did. sorry forgot, was busy this week
