Weird spot with AK in 1-3 with straddle

PM where this game is i wonder if we play in the same games.

I would call turn but I think a check raise or even just check jamming the flop for 500 is good. Puts a lot of pressure on hands other than sets and you really want to see all 5 cards.

She is a reg to the game and bought in math the stack for $2K, so she is probably a professional player. When she limp/calls, that probably is a small pp a lot. Depends also on how much you have seen her limp behind. It looks like a set. She could also have 99/77/66 for just a pair. Maybe a flush draw. You block a lot of flush draws, but bad if you get bluffed on the river by a worse no pair.

With different reads, you could maybe check/shove the flop or turn, but I think you need to just call both.

I'm a fan of 5xBB at small stakes, so I'd be opening to $50 with the limpers. Thing is a suited ace is never something to be afraid of multiway since it so easily dominates worse flush draws that almost always play for stacks. I actually prefer getting 4 calls instead of scared of it. But if I can dominate just 1 guy calling with A8o I'm also fine with that.

As played I like the flop check but prefer to x/r flop and going broke no matter what. You are right to range her bet for strength but we cant always be afraid of a set and she should be terrified of a x/r in this spot.

I play this differently
45 pre prob folds someone

Small flop bets are in vogue
Betting the flop is crucial to put the fear of a big pocket pair in the minds of villain(s)

Now, she just calls her little top pair hand A8 and raises with better than top pair. Info becomes more clear. As played, a pro sees weakness.

Maybe some see it differently, but when you raise pre and check the little flop - I always think AK - it’s like you turned your hand face up.

As played, I’m folding the flop. I think villain has a pretty good grasp of where she stands and you’re behind. Unless you get lucky, you will bleed chips in this spot.

I don’t understand the forum seemingly push to chase draws. It’s like you find the reasons to justify your actions. Again, I will semi-bluff draws, but I’m always looking for folds, not to hit my hand. I don’t think you get enough folds at any point in this hand.

Your read:
“She has to have a good piece of this board to bet this multi-way” but you call with nothing. You miss the turn and she’s still firing, so now you want to know what to do?

At this point, you do realize that you could spike a pair on the river and be way behind.

Her quote:
“Well, let’s play then” sounds a lot like ducks
If you jam into a set, I don’t think she’s folding.

It shouldn’t be this way, but I think most players are loser with AK, because of hands somewhat like this. Over and over I see players turn over ace high after driving it into 2pair.

We should cbet, as played check rip. Plenty of equity and plenty of fold equity.

I think the consensus is that I should still be raising larger pre.

Some good points all around. I think I c-bet the flop at 100% if I only get 2 callers or get it heads up pre. Going so multiway drove me to check, but I guess I should still find a c-bet here. I have the over pair advantage, so I can see how my hand looks face up when I check.

If I C/R flop, what do we expect to fold out here?

I would just x raise flop and gii. 35 pre seems good. Anymore and it seems like way too much unless you know for a fact folks will call.

Sure going bigger is better when it goes call call call call etc but if it’s one call to a straddle, not sure you wanna go too big bc you lose value with your big hands.

Flop, either lead for like 60-100% of pot, or x raise, x jam. Even against sets, you have solid equity. Might run into two worse hearts at times and tp which we do well against. Hard to say tho. Might be sets, 2 pairs, overpairs to board a lot.

Raise pre size is fine, but if they are routinely calling, going bigger is not a bad thing -- $40 to $50 is fine, especially OOP.

Personally, I donk this flop pretty big. I'm willing to gii, so I'm getting money in now. If I check, it's with the intention to check/raise. As played, yuck. If you think she hit a big piece of this so you want to call, you might as well fold. What in the world were you hoping for on the turn? On turn (I'd never be here), it's shove or fold. Flip a coin.

Turn ($318) Q♦

I check to her, and she bets $125.

H?

I tanked for a while on this one and thought pretty hard about folding. I was just thinking about how she said, "Well, let's play then, " before calling the $35 and what that meant for her range here. I'd discounted pairs 99+ due to that comment.

As played on the turn, I call. In hindsight, I feel like this is probably a mistake due to our stack sizes, as I'm left with SPR < 1 on the river.

River ($568) J♦

Here, I think I just have to give up. I'm not sure if I can get worse to fold, and some worse flush draws now have a pair. I check.

Reading the comments here, I think my best play is either to lead flop or if I'm going to check, I have to C/R all-in. Mentally, when playing live, I think I just have to be more aggressive and have more conviction.

V checked back with a set?! Wow. At like (whoops!) 85 straddles effective? Jeez, did you lose the minimum.

The new format makes it tough to scroll up to refresh my recollection of the action, but I don't think that's how I'd have played it.

The donked flop is w/e, but I'm sizing up on turn and putting H in on river. Guess V thought QQ/JJ were a significant part of H's continuing range. Shrug. At 85 straddles, I'd just be going broke with 44. Def note that this V is not "speech = big hand pre."

Villain sucks no offense. That check back is so terrible.

Even though they showed up with a set, I still like check jamming flop. Someone saying fold flop lol well.

I actually think you played it fine. An apparently competent player is betting the flop into four (!) opponents for a fairly decent sizing. I don't think we should just brush over that and be superhappy to c/r here and get all the money in. I mean, I don't necessarily hate it, but I'd much rather call. On the turn I call again because the odds are favourable, but I'm not putting in my last 275 on an A or K if she shoves river. I would expect any hand which we would beat with TPTK on the river to check behind on this turn like always. It may look like a small and therefore weak bet, but it leaves you with 275 which can easily go in on the river, so she could just be milking you. On the river it's an obvious c/f now that we don't hit our flush. I’m very surprised she checks behind here, and to be honest, with this line I would feel dumb and outplayed if she had shown us 99 or A8 (meaning the small turn bet was actually weak), but in my experience most people don't mess around on super multiway flops, so I would go with that read and proceed carefully.

Pre-flop raise size seems fine. Maybe an argument to be made for sizing up or down slightly depending on our reads and table dynamics.

I probably just fold the flop. Even if we want to rep over-pairs, our opponents can have all the sets here. We're not starting all that deep, not really deep enough to continue with just two overs.

Turn is interesting in that we're now heads up, and she's betting small on a card that is better for us. If we're going to make a play for the pot, by trying to rep QX or QQ, the time is ripe. We're not getting a great price to draw to six outs.

So, I think our play on the turn is to raise or fold. It appears we've only got $420 left? Yeesh. With $440 in the pot, I doubt she's folding a set, and I wonder if she'd be betting with just 1P here.

You do realize we have the nut flush draw?

Also, we have 295 left (I said 275 earlier, but it looks like it’s 295).

My edits should make it clear I couldn't see the suits on my phone. Blame the new forum software.

Looking at this on my laptop, in the new forum format, and now seeing the suits. Also seeing that my edits to my earlier post aren't showing up with the new forum software, so that's weird (apologies to Java for my snark).

PRE - I missed that it was a BTN straddle. If the SB folded, I might open-limp from the BB with a plan to 3B over any raise. Once the SB limps, I don't mind the raise. Still not sure about the size. Seems okay, but might size up or down, depending on the table dynamics.

FLOP - first to act and so multi-way, on a board that's likely to be stabbed at a high frequency, I like the check. V's bet sizing doesn't tell us as much as the simple fact that she bet out into four opponents with two opponents behind her still to act. I'd think that's at least TP for value, or a good draw. Calling seems fine. Wouldn't hate a x/r with two overs and the NFD.

TURN - her sizing seems small on a wet board. I'd think 2P+ would bet larger. Could go either way between calling and check-raising, but somewhat prefer the check jam to make her fold 8x, and hopefully get called by worse flush draws. Just praying we don't get snapped off by QXhh.

Multiway especially, I suggest you don’t hang around with AK if you miss the flop. I can usually get behind jamming preflop with AK, but not after a flop that missed. It’s just another drawing hand.

If you can have more conviction at the table, it will likely help you more than anything you do. When we see a lot of folds, and then the person comes out attacking like they have quads, we likely get out of the way.

Aggression is vital, but must be used in strategic ways. Wild bluffs with AK is not the way to make money in this game.

Agree with posters saying raise bigger preflop. In fact, I probably go bigger than they suggest, maybe 60. Does 44 still call at that price? Maybe, but I don’t think you end up 5ways.

When you have AK, you want them to think you have a big pocket pair. Thus, the big bet pre. Then, you will get the folds you want. You can win a lot of money with AK, but it’s more important not to lose a lot with that hand. Most people do.

Your hand is a great example:
If you shove preflop (not saying that’s the right move) but the fours probably fold & you win.

But after a flop, you may be so far behind, you can’t catch up & it would be a bad time to get aggressive then. Don’t feel entitled with AK, it should be easy to throw away naked and facing pressure.

I disagree.

The flop wasn't a miss the flop was a draw to the nut flush. V has a ton of hands that would stab at this flop when the preflop raiser checks if V is the slightest bit competent. Preflop raiser has a bunch of suited broadways and some offsuit like AK/AQ that are total whiffs on this board and have to fold. V should be betting with hands like 99-JJ, all of which are easily in her range and H is a 53% favorite. 76, 65hh could easily be in her preflop range and definitely want to semi-bluff, H is a 68% favorite vs those. 8x like A8 or 98 could flat pre and probably want to stab because they don't really want to see another card and are ahead a lot, H is 45% vs A8 and probably gets A8 to fold with a x/r.

With those hands in range, H has around 45%ish equity and hands like 8x where H is a dog will fold to pressure, while hands where H is a big favorite like 76hh will have a really hard time folding. SPR is only 2.7x. If we were $2100 deep, then absolutely x/c is the right play on the flop, and we're also calling the turn because we have a lot of implied odds for our draw. We miss, fold river and top off. But when we only have a 2.7x SPR and we flow two overs with NFD, you should be just fine with getting it in unless our read is that V is nitty. V just bought in for 700bb, that is enough evidence to suggest V isn't a nit. Yes, we're going to run into sets sometimes, but the times V just can't get away from hands we have crushed will offset those, and we have 26% equity even when we're against the nuts.

It is far more important to make sure we are finding ways to maximize our wins than it is to try to avoid losses. We have fold equity vs hands that are ahead, we can be called by hands that are materially worse, and we have decent equity vs the current nuts. All that adds up to shoveling money in on the flop when the SPR is low.

Could maybe make it like as someone else said around 43-45.
But honestly and I know this might sound crazy but I would actually rather try just calling this depending on how agressive the players behind are. I see this hand getting way more value against lower flushes (if there are players who get stick after the river as well) or trips and overpairs when we hit our flush. But it also comes down to table dynamic and player styles and my image that night. But I actually would go for a call 70% of the time in this spot.