Beginner at fulltime poker and managing anxiety/mental issues away from poker.

Moreover, i feel apathetic ever since i temporarily went full time, whereas when i play recreationally i dont feel apathetic.

Im winning over a decent sample size so its not downswings

Trying to understand
Before I gave up sports betting, I would have experiences that sounds like what you’re talking about. I don’t mean the actual sweat, but it was like I couldn’t sleep looking for the next play all the time.

I don’t play online, but I could see that the hud stuff adds a lot to keep up with. Your situation sounds like someone on Robinhood checking his profit every 15 minutes. You’re winning, no need to verify how you stand constantly.

Maybe unconsciously you don’t feel fulfilled just playing poker. I don’t think you can expect a steady ride. There’s going to be swings
Push away pokertracker and check in once a week.

You need to be happy away from poker. You say you work out but do you like it? I’m in a happy zone and love it, but if you’re just doing it because you’re supposed to it doesn’t qualify.

You need activities that you enjoy that have nothing to do with poker. Maybe a friend. My best friend and wife has zero interest in the casino. I play, she has other interests, but we enjoy each other. It helps to be happy.

I feel like I’m throwing stuff at the wall and hoping something sticks. I’m trying to help, but don’t know all the variables. Giving you a little to think about.

I’ll leave with a quote from an old coach I didn’t like very much, but it changed my life. It likely doesn’t resonate with everyone but it helped me.

“There is no reason for anyone to ever have a bad habit.”

It’s simple, but I’ve fixed quite a few issues over time with this focus.

I might be the wrong guy right now, but we live in a world with lots of ways to find answers, so keep looking until you find what works for you!

I think I resonate with what your saying that its not the poker directly that's maladapted or the problem. Meaning poker is not giving me anxiety directly. I think I resonate with what your saying that its several problems from my life thats not well adapted to full time poker. But its more life problems, rather than poker problems.

I think some of what you're dealing with is just hazards of the poker occupation. Until I actually tried playing poker full time I didn't realize how stressful bankroll management can be when you're relying on poker for your main source of income. Downswings are brutal. What sounds like a reasonable bankroll on paper can emotionally feel like it's not enough when you're relying on withdrawing money for expenses.

Even when everything is going great, as your bankroll grows you'll typically start playing bigger so you never quite feel secure. There's always a bigger game, and it's easy to have the risk of ruin nagging at you in the back of your mind, even if you're using proper BRM and the risk is minimal. Then you've got to pay for stuff like taxes and medical insurance. It's stressful.

There are other aspects of poker that are challenging too, like the "mental warfare, " aspect that comes into play battling other pros, odd hours, etc. It's just a different kind of existence than the way most people live.

I found it helpful to find some other things to do that make you feel like you are contributing to society. I personally think it's important to both give and take in life, whereas poker can feel like it's all about taking. That can make you feel out of balance.

Ideally if you find something that helps other people and provides a secondary income stream that can also help reduce the financial stress. For example a lot of poker pros end up doing coaching and stuff as another income stream.

Finally meditation and/or visualization exercises can be very helpful for maintaining a healthy presence. I've gotten out of the habit of this one lately, and I'm going to recommit to at least doing a short meditation every morning. It can really help to declutter your mind.

I’m old, but when I play it’s amazing how drained I am afterwards. It takes so much mental energy in a game where just one mistake can destroy your session.

Even if I was younger, I think playing full time would be a challenge to maintain the sharpness it takes for each session. I need a day or two to recover.

If you have an enormous bankroll, I think playing full time would be a nice option. If you’re counting on paying your bills with poker winnings, it’s probably a big mistake.

You don’t mention how much time you’re at the tables - it’s easy to lose track of time
If you’re one of those people that is going to keep on playing until you get unstuck - this could become unhealthy.

I suggest the Joy of Poker by Jason Su
It’s about poker, but it’s also about life
I’ve read all the books and this is the one you need. I’m sure it will help.

I did the same stuff

Poker tends to bring out a ton of emotions in us.

Emotions are very much like a wave - they rise, crest and eventually pass.

There's a real skill in being able to stay present with all those emotions and adrenaline in your entire body and nervous system as they're happening.

It's not the same as just eating healthy, working out, meditating, etc.

That stuff is great, don't get me wrong, but emotions build up when you don't stay present with them, which leads to stuff like

• Fatigue
  
• Less excitement and joy in the game
  
• Less presence while you're playing
  
• Enjoying the wins less
  
• Having a hard time disconnecting from the game and enjoying life outside poker
  

So the thing you're looking to train is exactly that.

Making it your highest priority to be with your emotions and full experience, both at and away from the table, so that you can feel like yourself, and enjoy life, all the time.

Most of the classic poker and mental game advice doesn't help with this.

It's not something you can just do with your head.

You can't just tell yourself to think something different, or feel something different.

You have to learn to accept and feel things exactly as they are first.

From there, you'll free up space to enjoy the game again, feel energized for all your sessions, and actually be able to disconnect and relax when you're away from the game.

It's no surprise this started happening when you went full-time.

When you're playing recreationally and have days between sessions, there's a lot of extra time for your body to process all the shit poker puts you through. When all the stuff gets processed, the anxiety eases up, and the negative thoughts tend to subside along with it.

If you want to play full-time AND enjoy it, this is going to make all the difference.

I'd be happy to talk more about it, just DM me if you're interested.

You can also add me on discord: robbie_kohler

I agree that full time is taking on more and not as much processing as recreational play.
Im not depending on fulltime poker as a source of income im merely trying to improve more than recreational play. That means im playing full time but I can still take a break to process things. So far since posting I feel better about bankroll management, getting used to managing more than recreational play however taking things as they come and managing what i can handle.

I think not being used to things throws you for a loop. I started taking shots and now thats not what im used to. I feel like i got used to the full time bankroll management, just got to process things every now and then. However now the bankroll management while taking shots is having difficulty adjusting. It could just be inexperience but im trying to be more comfortable with things that im inexperienced at. Moreover im trying to get used to inexperienced things, with time to process things without as much discomfort. You have to improve somehow, i just dont like feeling tilted when processing things to improve areas of inexperience

It sounds like part of what you're dealing with could be mental overwhelm, balancing making poker decisions while also thinking about bankroll and other stuff.

One thing that might help is to systematize more of your decisions, or make the decisions prior to beginning a session.

For example, before your session begins tell yourself, "I will play X stakes today with a stop loss of Y dollars. If there's a good game on the upper margin of my bankroll requirements I will allow two bullets for the bigger game, " or whatever.

That's basically how I do it. That way you don't have to think about it while you're playing and can just focus on the game.

Yea this is how it goes

Do something new, have a new internal experience. Over and over.

More hours, higher stakes, different bankroll, new experiences.

We all tend to use different words for the same stuff.

• Managing more
  
• Adjusting
  
• Throws you for a loop
  
• Inexperience
  
• Comfortable with things
  
• Feeling tilted when processing
  

Doesn't matter what words you use to describe it really, we all have different ones that resonate with us. What it sounds like is you want to grow, and you want to be comfortable and enjoy it at the same time.

Might sound overly simple, but we tend to forget what we want and overcomplicate things along the way.

Here's the thing though

You have no control over what you feel when you do stuff. Emotions just happen. We feel what we feel.

The choice is whether or not you feel it while it's happening, or take time later on to process it (or fully suppress it and turn into a complete misreg).

You also have no control over whether or not you like what you're feeling in the moment it's happening.

If you have to always like what you're feeling, you're going to constantly have new experiences, feel uncomfortable, then recoil for awhile until you're back to feeling how you want.

From what you wrote, it sounds like you suck it up for a long as you can, then rest until you're comfortable again, and then go back in for another round.

The thing that can change though is your relationship to the internal experience you're having while you do it.

If you can learn to accept all the emotions and thoughts as they're happening, you can process them in real time, spend a lot more time being comfortable, and spend a lot more time growing in the arena you want, rather than resting and processing everything that happened.