TPTK bloated pot OOP..is this spew or thin value?

I estimate opener UTG1 range is about 40%-50% ATC to the flop, V2 about 30-40% and BTN about top 15% ATC.

I should add: V3 calls the 65 looking frustrated

In a low limit game a self described passive opens early and then gets 3 bet. You’re in terrible position and elect to call with a weak hand relatively speaking. Then of course this mistake gets compounded geometrically throughout the hand.

It’s frustrating with a suited broadway, but this is a trivial fold.

no idea what you are doing preflop

this is why you are experiencing a downswing, making simple errors nobody should make

Just playing too many hands I guess.

Grunch:

PRE - BTN raise size seems suspect to me. Seems like a real hand would want to make this at least $50, not $35. Maybe it's not weak because he just sat down with a short stack, but I'd be mighty tempted to 3B squeeze with ATs here, when we'll otherwise be OOP and likely multi-way post, with the worst absolute and worst relative position.

FLOP - if I'm doing the math right, V3 only has $100 left?

I hate folding. I hate calling. I'd like to raise enough to put V3 all in, but I don't really love min-clicking and creating a small side pot with V2, when we're OOP and we'll hate so many run outs. It's not likely he's going to fold to a min-click.

I guess we should rep huge and go for a big raise here. There's $345 in the pot? I think a raise to $400-$450 likely gets V2 out of there. Maybe V3 folds at some frequency, but probably not after putting half his stack in.

Seems like a spot where we should be somewhat indifferent to whether or not V3 calls. I'd think we often have the best hand here, and just want to deny equity from what I would guess is a draw for V2.

Maybe playing too many. Maybe playing them too passively when you're OOP. Maybe just not dialing it in enough, not making the right adjustments based on your reads and the stack sizes.

ATs can make for a difficult decision pre. Looks too good to fold, may not be good enough to raise, particularly as a cold 4B.

V1 isn't deep enough for me to worry about him showing up with a monster when he opens to $10 from EP. He may be tilted and just looking for a spot to get it in with any hand that has decent equity.

The opponents who flat called probably don't have better than ATs. That just leaves V3.

He's only got $200. Is this the size he'd raise to with a premium holding? Did he just change tables after torching, and may just be trying to pick up the pot for cheap?

What happens if we click this? Maybe V1 jams for $100. The betting gets re-opened, so V2 and CO likely fold. Maybe V3 re-jams.

At that point, there would be $380 in the pot, with no further action, and we'd have to call $140 more to continue. We'd be getting 2.7 to 1 pot odds. Hard to think we could be making a huge error by folding or calling. We may not be ahead, but we only need around 27% equity to make the call break even.

If action folds to V3, and he actually has a real hand, he'll probably be really annoyed, and may jam out of frustration. At that point it's a trivial fold and we only lost $60.

Or we can skip the shenanigans by just folding ATs pre, and staying patient. This isn't a hand we need to play.

So, raise or fold pre. Let's not cold call 3B's, especially not from OOP.

Fold pre. As played, I peel one, but only because I got myself here 😉 I might go ahead and raise depending on how aggressive vs. sticky V2 has been.

H makes it 250, V1 sighs, V2 tanks for about a minute and calls, V3 folds frustrated...

Turn (Main 410, Side 370) - T♥ 9♦ 5♣ 2♣

V1 slams his beer before we act, grabs his coat and stands up to leave...

...H shoves for 715...

I don't hate it. But also not sure what to make of it.

On the one hand our raise is small enough to keep V2's range wide. On the other it's not big enough to define his range at all.

I'd tend to think we have the best hand a lot. Doesn't seem like the BDFD appearing would change much. Maybe it makes it more likely he'll call with a hand like QJcc or 87cc.

I'd like the jam better if we picked up a diamond draw, but I'd also like to be taller. C'est la vie.

I dunno. Doesn't seem terrible to me. Hope it works out.

Pre-flop is an obvious fold. It’s always going to be a fold but the stack sizes here need to be a real consideration. Everyone at the table needs to be aware that V1 is likely to rejam his $100 stack pre. That means BTN can never 3bet this spot light. It also makes cold-calling a speculative hand particularly awful. V1 should rejam $100 a lot and reopen the action for BTN to jam his $200.

Post flop seems fine. V2 is going to have better hands (including nutted hands) sometimes but he has a lot of worse stuff you can get action from, especially when he turns a flush draw.

Wait, so the 3better preflop only has a stack of $200? Trivial fold of this hand to that stack size. We also have to be worried that the small stack opener shoves and re-opens the action. I guess obviously we're attempting to get in a hand versus the deep V2 but it's a very dicey attempt at this and meanwhile the shorties are owning us.

Obviously can't fold to V1's small bet, and you'd think V3 woulda shoved his PSB with better, so we're committed against those two stacks, imo. So now the issue is the deeper V2. Is he flatting a monster? Or on a draw with worse? I think the best line is probably just to call and then see how V2 reacts to the turn card cuz he shouldn't be getting out of line in a protected pot, and make a decision there. But, this is deep and therefore out of my wheelhouse.

ETA: i didn't even realize we were OOP, which makes preflop even worse, although hardly by much, but it does affect the flop cuz I thought we could just see a turn in position and see what V2 does (and we can't even do that). As played, V2 seems loose and board is drawy and we only have a PSB left and turn shouldn't have hit him, so i guess I'm fine with the shove at this point.

GcluelessdeepstacknoobG

"Hollywood!", is my gut reaction to a just-sat-down-guy's weirdly small 3! over an open and 2 callers, and now open frustration with whatever on a T95r flop. Ofc, their sizing may just be awful. 15% of their stack though, and what was he expecting really?

I am overagressive, I think, but I prefer a squeeze to a call. Iso the frustrated shorty to like 125. I guess we have to call it off though if the button shoves. Folding might be best.

All that is pf though. Now...?

Grunch: AP, I'm putting the BU in and hoping the much deeper V2 goes away. Off to read more...

Weird. Caught up, and was not expecting V3 to fold and V2 to call.

I don't know why H's bombing into a sticky, bluffy V, who tank called H's flop raise (nicely done, BTW). Is H doing this with T9/TT/99/55 versus betting another 200-250 and setting up a trivial river shove?

What value is V folding to this? Seems like they're drawing, and you beat most draws.

yeah i mean pre has gotta be losing idk 4-5bb maybe?

am torn between check and flop lead 30 or 80 (half of v1 and v3's stacks)

it feels like turn shove is too big and id go for some weird solveresque b66ish approach despite it not feeling like it makes any sense. i think jam is fine from ev standpoint but it just feels like sizing down going to widen his calling range and be better

Pre is definitely lighting money on fire. Just fold. I don't hate it post flop as played.

My excuse for cold calling the 3-bet OOP is this: every hand was going 5 ways for 30 bucksish. I didn't even notice BTN had sat down. I was somewhat card dead and I've been running badly so I was kind of autopilot. For the last hour I've seen nothing playable and fish are showing down J8o for 30$ pre. So, in the moment, my thought was - "This isn't good enough to 4-bet vs these guys, but I'm deep enough with V2 to flush mine, and I'm often ahead right now". I hadn't even seen BTN sit down to be totally honest, I was seat 1. This was the first hand he'd played, maybe he'd been at the table half an orbit. But yes, I understand his 35$ could be nutted. But over 3 10$ bets? IP? I think there has to be some calls here with hands like 77-TT, ATs+, KQs?

Result:

If that is really your read you could just cold 4bet here.

Indeed.

As a general rule, when they're limping / calling with ATC, effectively playing Bingo, don't do the same thing. You have to be in there raising aggressively, and for larger sizes when you'll be OOP post.

The bold / underlined part is particularly problematic. If they're playing napkins ATs is definitely good enough to 4B. If you're likely ahead, you can raise.

Flatting with AXs to flush-mine mostly isn't a thing. Like, what if we just flop TPTK?

And, I'll admit, I've occasionally cold-called 3B's, but not often, and there's usually a fairly unusual set of circumstances when I do it. Like the last time I remember cold-calling a 3B, the opener didn't have a 4B range beyond AA/KK and the 3B'er is often FOS, and I've got the BTN.

Maybe ATs is in our hypothetical occasional 3B cold-calling range. But I really don't think we should be cold-calling 3B's from the blinds. On the BTN? Sure, maybe sometimes, when we're confident the opener isn't 4B'ing often enough. But in the blinds it's just spewtastic.

You had the reads. You knew they were playing napkins. Trust your instincts, and 4B.

You said V1 has $100, is drinking beer and ready to go home. He opens to $10 from EP and gets 3-bet. You've got to recognize he's going to jam here quite often over your call!!!

You've got to fold pre. It's not a good hand to 4-bet bluff with either. A T is not a great card to have in your hand when you're 4-betting light, because it's blocking a lot of the hands you're targeting for folds, like JT, QT, KT, even TT.

Putting blockers aside, if you want to turn your downswing around you really need to reign in your preflop stationing. I recommend referring to some rake-adjusted preflop GTO charts, and tell yourself you will play AT LEAST that tight. When facing a 3-bet at low stakes NL you should often be playing tighter. Also remember that rake has a massive effect on how many hands can be played profitably. Many hands that would be +EV in a rake free environment have to fold due to rake.

Anyway this preflop spot your default should be to continue with something like QQ+, AK. Maybe if you have reads that everyone is FOS you could continue with something like JJ. As a 4-bet "bluff" maybe you could raise something like AQ or A5s.

As played pre, I don't mind the way you played postflop. It was really one of the better boards for your hand, and given reads stacking off was reasonable after you arrived there this way. The preflop error cannot be understated though! Calling was a massive blunder and it ultimately cost you your stack.

Another thing you might want to do is work on how you're classifying hands in your mind. When facing aggression (definitely when facing a raise and reraise), you should mostly be looking at ATs as an implied odds hand. You're hoping to make something like a flush, straight or two pair and win a big cooler, but those hands are relatively uncommon. You really shouldn't be putting in more than about 5% of effective stacks with this hand pre flop given the strength your opponents showed.

Think about it, are you really happy when you make a pair of aces OR tens? This is the type of spot where you win a small pot or lose a big one. In a 3-bet pot when you hit your ace you will often be out kicked and when you hit a ten you have to worry about overpairs (not to mention random junk like here).

Anyway sorry to be so harsh, but I tried to be gentler in that other thread when I said to make sure you're not playing too many hands and here we are a couple days later.

Also if I were you I would delete your twoplustwo account and create a new one with a different username. Calling yourself StupidBanana is like a negative affirmation where you're telling yourself you do stupid things. It's no wonder you subconsciously play into your self-created image. I don't know if you can change your username or whether you would have to create a new account, but maybe try something like AdvancedBananaAI?

I’d also take at least 90 days off of playing. You’re playing bingo not poker and are in a terrible frame of mind. I was doing the same thing last year, took five months off, got way more TAGgy pf esp oop, and also stopped happy jacking around with small/minimum bullets, and I’ve now won back all i lost in the downturn ($6600).