KK vs house maniac

HH:

V opens UTG 50, Quasi-TAGish fish to 150 IP, folds back and V 4-bet shoves 800, Quasi-TAG fish snaps. They run it once T-7-3-T-J, V's ATo beats Quasi-fish's AA

You said you have several hours vs villain. So you should know what he does this with ???

Draws? nuts? random bluffs?

Preflop seems a bit small vs a wild player no?

What do you know about his calling range preflop? Does he open/3bet wide pre? What do you know about his donking range and overbet sizing tell you anything?
I think you should have a lot more reads than a description of "true maniac"?
If he's really crazy and call with all random draws/pairs, I might just jam the flop.

You are a bit over ~100bb effective with a guy you describe as a 'true maniac'. His move seems less than total nuts...I'd guess most likely draw or two pair. I think I'd call it off here.

Make it 100 pf, jam flop, but ap snapcall. Based on my experience with **real** maniacs, his most likely hands are K8 Q3ss 76 & 65

If he's a true maniac, just gii on the flop.

Uh call. Jam flop.

uhg I folded.. he had 53o

I probably would have done the same…

But I think this hand points to possible semi-bluffs. Villain makes a strong play here because even if you call, he has outs.

The question becomes is he jamming because he is afraid someone will draw out on him or is he bluffing as played. I may need to reframe my thinking on draw heavy boards. Instead of worrying that villain got there, it may be valuable to make villain think I got there.

The only way to handle this mentally is to decide he spikes a 2 on the river and you saved your buyin. Spin it positive, don’t let negative creep in, it was just one hand.

Another thing this hand points to is handling being bluffed:

1st - you still have that 1100
2nd - other players can see when you laugh or act unbothered and that’s scary to them because they know it would have bothered them greatly in the same situation.
3rd - if it does bother you take a break or switch tables and get your focus back on making great decisions.

Why are we not limp raising pre? Shove flop, call turn.

yea gotta agree with everyone else that this is a mandatory call. Was perfectly played until the Turn, imo.

Grunch:

PRE - raise bigger.

You've got a LAG in the straddle and a maniac in the double straddle. They're going to over-defend. Meanwhile, you're in MP, and would like to have last position post, so we want to make it expensive for players behind us to call.

FLOP - WTF? What is he doing, over-bet donking?

Honestly, I hate spots like this. He could have 2P, a set, or a straight, because his range is super wide pre, or he could just have a hand like A6ss, because his range is wide and he's super aggro. He could also just have a draw.

We aren't likely to have many strong hands on this board, and when he does this, I'd expect him to bomb the turn.

I dunno. I think I might fold and not tell anyone.

TURN - Yuck. We're pretty capped here, and V has all the bluffs and all the nutted hands. We're guessing.

If he's used to playing much bigger, I could understand thinking that he's just splashing around with what's basically monopoly money. We could have the best hand, but I'm not sure I want to stack off to find out.

I think I'd fold. If he's bluffing, let him have it.

Just read the reveal.

Not totally shocked he was semi-FOS, doing this with a GSSD that turned bottom pair.

I just woke up. Waiting for the coffee to kick in. Reading others' posts, I think I agree we have to call it off when we get to the turn the way we do. I also like OD's idea of limp-raising pre, and the idea of just jamming flop, though I don't think I'd ever do it.

I feel your pain, Banana. Been on a bit of a downswing myself lately. If you're sitting with $1340 at 1/3, and someone wants to play for stacks, I'd likely be gun-shy, too.

I don't often play in games where the stacks are this deep, and it seems like most of the hands posted by OP are 300-400bb deep. Yeah I know with the straddle it's effectively more shallow but there is a disconnect btw me saying "I don't see how we can fold this" and "geez that's a lot of money for 1 pair". Seems like one would need a number of reps to get comfortable with calling here, or else learn that even maniacs don't blast off without 2 pair+.

Might be worth considering playing a game that's closer to 100bb stacks if available... relatively easy decisions

If a guy is overbluffing then it becomes profitable to call with every bluffcatcher. If you call and he shows 64o just tap the table.

If the concern is that we don't want to play a ~$3k pot without the nuts, then get up and leave. If you are feeling shameless, you can go eat dinner, come back in an hour, and put $500 on the table or whatever.

My room rarely plays this deep at 1/3 NL during my daytime hours, I think I can count on one hand the times I've personally seen stacks this big ever played for, and the turn bet is actually above our room maximum bet (which I've seen come into play like maybe twice in 16 years), so this is *way* outside my zone of comfort / knowledge.

But my useless 2 cents is that we're up against a true maniac, some draws have busted, there's lots of other hands he could consider best (smaller overpairs, etc.), and SPR was 11 on the flop (not an unreasonable stack off SPR against a maniac), so sigh call?

GcluelessdeepstacknoobG

Yeah, I think this is decent advice for anyone going thru a tough downswing. You can even still play in the same deep games but just shortstack it and then make decisions of how to continue when doubling up.

And the part about "relatively easy decisions" can't be overlooked. if you're playing deepstacked, you *really* need to know *exactly* what you're doing. I have no idea how to play deepstack (lol, most will say I don't know how to shortstack either, ha), but from some of the responses I've read to Banana posts it seems there is often the opinion that a lotta button clicking is going on. It's possible it's less of a downswing and more a reverting to the mean.

GcluelessdownswingnoobG

Not raising flop for obvious reasons but I'm also never ever folding turn vs ''a true maniac''.

I mean this with the utmost respect, but do you ever actually think before making a decision? Please don't think I'm trying to be rude especially while ur going through it atm, but I just don't understand how someone who takes 15 sec to think about this spot EVER folds vs ''House maniac, have several hours with V, he is a true maniac''.

When he jams the turn I think you can eliminate the top of his range - if he had 88 or 57 I doubt he would jam for double pot. I'd expect him to have a lot of draws on a board like this with that sizing - definitely a call. Factor in the maniac note and it's more a fist pump.

i think call flop is better with a spade in our hand though having seen his hand maybe best counter is to be raising

folding turn is lol

how u spend infinite words on reads of useless opponents that barely put in a dollar and dont put your entire focus on what this guy is doing?

I could get behind the flop call but folding turn is horrendous. I wouldn't even be folding this against most players let alone a maniac.

Against a maniac I call and hope to Jebus that he didn’t get lucky on me or get lucky on the river. I would be bringing enough money with me to buy back in if he did. If you don’t have money to buy back in I get why you folded. Sounds like you’re leaning towards scared money.