1/3 ~ kk facing 3bet

I’m not fist pumping, but I’m not folding this shallow. Also I don’t like the x/r at this stack depth, spr is like what 4? We can just bet, bet, shove and easily get stacks in. Could even just lead pot and expect to get called a lot on a board this wet and then shove turn on a blank if we only want to play 2 streets.

It looks like a dream flop for you with an overpair ready to take AQ to value town.

I don’t like the check-raise either as a one pair hand looks for pot control most of the time. Marc likes to check when someone will stab, but I think he calls here. Again, bloating the pot with no more than a pair is not ideal.

Your line did gather good info though. I don’t think he’s got AQ anymore. It seems like you should fold.

Spots like this:
Sometimes I think a beginner’s mindset competes with leveling myself. What I mean is that a beginner is always calling, I’ve got KK for heaven’s sake - and actually this might be the best play. But as a more studied player, that snap shove looks like at least 2pair or better.

So, I guess what I’m asking:
Should you be more inclined to think the overpair is good against fish that might be overvaluing nearly anything?
In other words, should I play like a beginner against a fish and only expect a better player to have us beat here?

The problem is that results will not necessarily reinforce the best play, so how do you know?

Based on the read I think you're good often enough here. V has the ability to do yolo shoves and certainly would think AQ is the nutz.
I may be biased bc I was just looking back thru my notes from over 10 years ago "folded KK on QT8 flop, he had AQ" and wondered to myself why I talked myself into a fold there.

Adding to my post above...

Four ways, with two opponents behind us, and a SB who made a fishy play pre, I think we probably should be checking a lot on the flop, almost regardless of the board texture. This board texture in particular seems like it could make our opponents a lot of strong hands, reducing the relative value of our hand, thus making it more of a check than a bet.

On the other hand, our opponents are all starting out pretty shallow, such that they could all be willing to stack off with 1P or a draw. Because of the low SPR, I think we could bet flop, for a large size, with a plan to get it in now, or on most turns.

So, check-evaluate and c-betting large both seem viable. This check-raise seems questionable, if we're unsure what to do when V 3B-jams.

A check-raise creates more fold equity now and on future streets. But this would seem like a polarization mistake with our actual hand. It's really unlikely better will fold, but a worse hand might, which isn't necessarily what we want. If we're just trying to deny equity, we could just c-bet.

Marc Goone suggests using a huge x/r size with thick value, and using a smaller size when we're bluffing. Your 3x size suggests you're bluffing, but that doesn't make any sense with KdKh. We should x/r to $100 if it's for value, and force V to decide if he wants to play for all the money.

If the plan was to get stacks in on the flop, then well played, mission accomplished. If our read is that V is likely to take this line with a worse hand, then I like the check-raise. But if this was the plan all along, you wouldn't be asking us what you should do here.

With your read, and the stack depth, and such a draw heavy board, I think we have to call. I'm definitely not thrilled about it.

This would be an easier decision if we raised larger pre, and had fewer opponents or a lower SPR as a result, or if we just c-bet for a chunky size. If we bet $50-$75 and one of our opponents jams for $200, we just put the rest in.

I dunno man. At this stack depth, and with this board, and this action, it's hard to imagine folding our hand. If multiple opponents were firing at it, yeah, someone probably has us beat and we can fold. Otherwise, we're just getting it in and not worrying about how we're getting it in.

I would limp in but that's my style.

One of the reasons I limp in is cuz I hate smallish handcuffing committing SPRs and yet quite multiway where we gave everyone fairly decent IO. If you find these spots awesome then you'll have no problem with them, but I find them quite difficult.

I probably just cbet on this drawy board to setup a turn shove. But don't hate the check/evaluate line either, although it does risk the flop checking thru (which would be a disaster as giving free cards in a huge pot, especially when probably committed, is a decent mistake, imo).

His smallish bet definitely doesn't seem ~nuttish on a drawy board, so I'm cool with check/raising to setup a turn shove. Definitely not folding to the shove against a guy who overvalues bottom pear.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I'm also a hungry-horse wannabe, and this isn't what Marc would call CPFS (can play for stacks). Especially not when bet-bet-bet can be for all the money.

Bet 30, overbet jam most turns. Not folding to a jam as played.

Snap call now. As others have said, this hand plays better as a bet/bet/shove than a x/r due to the configuration and stack depth

Just raise bigger pre. Just check-call flop. This situation is entirely avoidable.

If we've seen a fishy V get it in with bottom pair, I don't know that we should be folding to his jam. Maybe we should because he's deeper now than he was before he doubled up in that hand. But we shouldn't be facing that decision, and probably wouldn't be in a different line.

Your description prior to this hand makes him sound wild. Against wild opponents, I tend to trap more, and avoid over-commiting to marginal hands when the board connects strongly with a range of any two cards.

I think cr flop is perfectly fine at this stack depth, sorry if you lost.

your takeaway should absolutely not be to x/r / fold the flop