My observations at 2/5 parx.
This is just my own observations for the couple hours at the table I was playing.
1)Thin value bets
I was seeing alot of thin value bets.
Even female reg was thin value betting river vs another reg even when flush card comes on paired flop board.
Everyone was doing it.
One Asian guy was the craziest, he 3barrels thin value vs 2 on a 4card flush river w/J high flush(1card).
Only some ppl thin values at 1/3.
I personally don't even have much of a thin value range. Thick value for most part and more polarized range. I only go for thin value vs obvious fishes w/obvious range.
It seems I need to work alot on this part.
2)Way way less showdowns
Pots are often won before showdown
People are more willing to lay down bigger hands. I assume more bluffs are made.
Yesterday, I found all my profits were coming from bluffs(repping nuts?) at the table. We didn't get to valuebet for any profit. It's like they don't want to pay you off(besides fishes).
I guess they have a reason saying aggressive poker is winning poker.
3) More 3bets and squeezes, less limps/calls.
Only the 2~3 fishes at the table were limping. Even when new players join, if they limp, they seem to be fishes.
Everybody(regs?) besides the fishes has less preflop leaks.
At 1/3 it seems like every player has some sort of obvious leaks in their preflop game.
Ppl were willing to fold to 3bets.
Even fishes were limp/folding sometimes vs isos.
Didn't see any 4bets though for like 5hours.
9 Replies
I've played with so many 2/5 players, where for the first 10 or more hours I thought they were solid. Sometimes I've started doubting whether I should be there, thinking everyone is solid.
Then after playing with the same players for a few sessions you usually start seeing them show down some really ridiculous hands they should never have. Usually the 1/3 players mistakes are more face up and obvious, and it just takes more time to start identifying the 2/5 players leaks. Not that there aren't some better players at 2/5, but sometimes it takes a while to find out who is who.
The place to start here is that it cannot be the case that all these thin value bets are good and simultaneously people are folding too much for thin value bets to be profitable.
You should consider whether instead of betting for thin value people are betting because they don’t know what to do with their hand. And then are they accidentally turning those hands into bluffs?
The place to start here is that it cannot be the case that all these thin value bets are good and simultaneously people are folding too much for thin value bets to be profitable.
You should consider whether instead of betting for thin value people are betting because they don’t know what to do with their hand. And then are they accidentally turning those hands into bluffs?
The thin value hands aren't play for stacks.
If they were betting huge I'd wonder if they were bluffing.
The asian guy did jam super uber thin vs a fish couldn't tell if it was a bluff or thin value.
I've played with so many 2/5 players, where for the first 10 or more hours I thought they were solid. Sometimes I've started doubting whether I should be there, thinking everyone is solid. Then after playing with the same players for a few sessions you usually start seeing them show down some really ridiculous hands they should never have. Usually the 1/3 players mistakes are m
When dealing with unknowns, do you start out thinking they are good players until they show that they’re not? That’s been my approach, unless they give away some obvious clues.
It seems counterintuitive, because we know most players are not as good as they think they are. Most of the time, people show their colors pretty quickly. But there are times when I spend most of the day thinking someone is solid when they’re not. The quiet ones, the ones you don’t notice, like you say, it takes a while to find out who is who.
The better players love poker, so they gladly sit in 1/3 when it’s the only game available. So, it can be an interesting mix to figure out. When a guy sits down and says he usually plays in Macau, he’s not a typical 1/3 player.
The main advantage of playing the same room is knowing the really bad players.
That's an interesting question. In general the answer is no, I typically don't start out assuming players are good. More often I assume they're not good and play exploitatively in a way that is effective against the population. Then if they counterexploit me, I will quickly recognize they're better than I thought and have to reign it in.
That's the short answer, but at the table you're always gathering information. Even with unknowns you can tell a lot by the way they dress, how they carry themselves, how they stack their chips, the way they size their bets, etc. You end up sort of mentally categorizing people, then refining your reads over time.
It's not an exact science, which is why sometimes our initial reads just end up being wrong. Someone might look like a pro from all outward appearances, use relatively reg-like bet sizes, and seem to be playing somewhat TAG. Then 8 hours into the game they randomly call a massive all-in with Q7 or something.
Also, regarding players thinking that they're better than they are. That's an interesting issue. I think when someone projects confidence, sometimes we assume they must be pretty good. However, they might just be overconfident when they're not good, or maybe they're generally confident about their approach to life and feel good about using their buyin as disposable income/ an entertainment expense.
I think being able to assess ourselves is also an important skill. Like I may come across as overconfident when posting on twoplustwo, but I'm acutely aware of my shortcomings at the table. I can usually recognize when I'm seated at a table with a pro who is much better than me, and I try to actively mitigate the disadvantage as much as possible. Like if they have position on me I will open a tighter range, and generally I try to avoid playing pots with them in marginal spots.
I think being able to assess ourselves is also an important skill. Like I may come across as overconfident when posting on twoplustwo, but I'm acutely aware of my shortcomings at the table. I can usually recognize when I'm seated at a table with a pro who is much better than me, and I try to actively mitigate the disadvantage as much as possible. Like if they have position on m
Maybe this is a leak?
Or maybe you have a leak you dunno about and they're exploiting you?
A leak how so? I'm not talking about avoiding the "tough" player at a 2/5 table. More like if I have a world class player on my left, I might slightly overfold to their 3-bets.
I'm self aware enough to understand that a break even defend to a 3-bet can become -EV if your opponent has position and a postflop skill edge on you.
Like if a solver says a hand is +.03 as a call vs an in position 3-bet. I'm going to defend if I think I have at least an equal skill level with my opponent. If I judge them to be significantly better than me that +.03 call can turn into -.2 post flop expectation if they just make slightly better post flop decisions than I do.
That tiny edge you're giving up by overfolding and being "exploited" pre might be less than you give up by calling and ending up in some weird, unorthodox node that you haven't studied and that your opponent has mastered.
I'm still trying to take the highest EV line. I just take my opponents into account. If the player is much worse than I am I adjust in the opposite direction, and play more hands assuming I will be the one with a postflop edge.
