PAHWM: TT vs whale+reg
2/5 ~ 7 handed ~ 2 players gone forever.
V1 ~ Young asian whale. Sat down like half an hour ago.
He was min3b clicking in bb w/35s.
He flatted a4o in btn vs passive fish 25 open, flop AT8r he minraise to 40/call 125??? turn Q xx River 2 he calls 175 bet
He has some donk small tendencies, have no clue what it means
V1 supposingly(he said it after hand) limp/coldcalled a 125$ 3bet w/KQ, 3way pot, flop J62dd he folded to 200(2/3) pot cbet. turn and river both Q so he said he folded KQ.
He bought in for 1000 and is now down to like 7~800ish.
Spoiler
HH
Fish opens to 20 in mp
V1 calls in mp+2
Hero in btn w/ATs squeezes to 90
both call
Flop K62r, V1 donks 50??? wtf does this mean? only fish calls
Were we supposed to call? raise? fold?
Turn 3, V1 jams for 4~500.Fish folded no show.
V2 ~ is an aggro reg, he has been tight preflop, but actively 3betting hero a good few times. Hero has been folding every single time.
He's super aggro postflop, he was bullying another fish earlier. Although no showdown, I had a gut feeling he was bluff shoving river vs fish small block bet on a flush river.
Effective 1000, he covers.
Hero in +1 w/T♣T♠ opens to 25
V2 in +2 posted dead blinds just got back, snap raises to 75.
V1 in bb coldcalls.
Hero?
Call, 4b is ok at 100 bigs but I'd say a punt at 200
4 betting and stacking off, 4 betting and folding, or 4 betting and seeing a flop in bloated pot all pretty bad outcomes for TT
Call, 4b is ok at 100 bigs but I'd say a punt at 200
4 betting and stacking off, 4 betting and folding, or 4 betting and seeing a flop in bloated pot all pretty bad outcomes for TT
So when we have TT in 100bb, 3bet/stacking off or 3bet/folding or 3betting and seeing a flop in bloated pot are all bad outcomes for TT???
So in a 100bb, facing an open, a coldcall, TT is a 100% flat otherwise it's a punt?
Imho, 4betting here is like the same as 4betting online(22-25% of stack in a 4bet) with 100bb vs light 3bettor and a whale.
Also 4bet size with 500 stack here is a jam. 4bet jamming TT is ok but 4bet small here is a punt?
if you already know the answers and aren't going to listen to reasonable input why post the hand?
what % of hands do you think he's 3betting? what are you doing vs a 5b jam? what are you doing postflop in any situation if he calls beyond b25 and pray he folds? do you think the average 2/5 player is playing a strategy that you should be getting in 200bb with TT from any position let alone utg7handed / utg1 happily with minimal history?
i think you have poor blockers to 4b bluff and i really doubt you want to get this in here regardless of what mental gymnastics u tell urself re sizing. if you knew utg1 would fold i think its fine to 4b but i think its a reasonable exercise to try to figure out how wide you need him to 3b here before you want to start 4bing TT
open is probably too big too
if you already know the answers and aren't going to listen to reasonable input why post the hand?what % of hands do you think he's 3betting? what are you doing vs a 5b jam? what are you doing postflop in any situation if he calls beyond b25 and pray he folds? do you think the average 2/5 player is playing a strategy that you should be getting in 200bb with TT from any position
Imho his 3b% was 15~20% which is crazy high. But most was from blinds vs btn, btn vs co positions.
+2 3b% should be tighter but at the time I felt he was running over me.
As for 5b jam, I doubt anyone live jam 5b light besides hyper aggros/fishes.
So against a light 3bettor, you guys still 4b polarize???
So normal pfr 15%, you guys willing to 3bet TT w/100bb stacks.
Now 3b 15%, you guys are calling just to set mine becoz of 200bb stacks?
I mean I'm fine with calling as well. It's just a bit contradictory.
Once we call, whats our plan vs reg+whale? Or our plan is only set mine ?
As for the open too big. There was 14 dead money. There was also a whale in bb. My normal open is 20.
have you looked at what 20% of hands is? (theres no way hes 3bing 20% 7 handed in any position let alone overall when your read is he's tight reg)
you're not really going to be able to come up with a non commiting 4b size that ever gets through the 2 of them enough of the time i think and again i dont know that the t's are particularly good blockers
have you looked at what 20% of hands is? (theres no way hes 3bing 20% 7 handed when your read is he's tight reg)
He's tight when he opens himself.
Pfr 15% is tight live.
He 3bets all hands he's playing when there's an open.
Also his 3b% goes way up in btn and blinds vs btn.
I play 15+% 3bet myself online. Otherwise I wouldn't come up with such number.
i dont really think you understand what 20% 3b overall looks like. i have never seen a nonwhale play with that type of number.
this is 20.35% of hands. either you think he's 3betting this range vs every single open regardless of position or he's 3betting a button opening range vs later positions lol. neither one of those are remotely plausible for "reg who has been tight pre but has 3b me"
a secondary way to reach 20% of hands
i dont really think you understand what 20% 3b overall looks like. i have never seen a nonwhale play with that type of number. this is 20.35% of hands. either you think he's 3betting this range vs every single open regardless of position or he's 3betting a button opening range vs later positions lol. neither one of those are remotely plausible for "reg who has been tight pre
Like I said he should be tighter in other positions maybe something like 8~12%
Then 30+% in btn and blinds vs btn position.
Of course I might be imagining things.
And these are made up numbers I don't have a hud stats live.
i get that. im telling you that you're over estimating the %
@dango when u play online do u use hold em manager? or are you just guesstimating the %s that you're 3betting?
am fairly certain the only reason you guys don't get pushback when you guess stats is no one else knows what they mean either
@dango when u play online do u use hold em manager? or are you just guesstimating the %s that you're 3betting?
am fairly certain the only reason you guys don't get pushback when you guess stats is no one else knows what they mean either
I use pokertracker+asian hand converter
3betting in btn frequently vs guys who fold is easy money. Then even if they call, they x/f flops.
3betting in bb vs btn is a bit trickier and a lot tighter than btn for me.
is a new database (~55k hands) but on acr filtered to >100 hands played to exclude fish who bust immediately, i have 531 unique players, exactly 1 has a 3b > 20%, and 28 > 15% with 16 of those between 15 and 16. very few appear to be regs at first glance
is a new database (~55k hands) but on acr filtered to >100 hands played to exclude fish who bust immediately, i have 531 unique players, exactly 1 has a 3b > 20%, and 28 > 15% with 16 of those between 15 and 16. very few appear to be regs at first glance
If the opponents only call or fold, then 3betting is easy money.
Not to mention the tilt factor or the times when you wake up with a real hand.
In game, in this hand specificly, before the whale coldcalled. I was thinking between folding, calling, 4betting.
After the whale coldcalled, folding was thrown out the window.
In game, in this hand specificly, before the whale coldcalled. I was thinking between folding, calling, 4betting.
After the whale coldcalled, folding was thrown out the window.
i would be hard pressed to fold without the cold caller based on how you're describing villain but i agree w this (re folding not being an option after the cold call)
i would be hard pressed to fold without the cold caller based on how you're describing villain but i agree w this (re folding not being an option after the cold call)
If HU, and we call we'd be oop. Unless we hit a set, we'd have a difficult time going to showdown vs this aggro villain.
it feels like you are paranoid of the regs running over you in some of your threads
villain is a 2/5 reg lol he is not linus. if you think he's drastically over 3betting and overbluffing postflop then call down? it reminds me of the other thread where you couldn't 3bet 99 because villain would know and 4b and put in a stack. im sure these guys are ok but people that are great poker players do not become regular 2/5 players
im not saying this from an arrogant standpoint, you just have a really weird mindset towards these guys / games. if you think they are decent i dont understand what you hope to accomplish posting on here that you wouldn't surpass from both an informational and efficiency standpoint by using a solver
how can you get run over playing 12% of hands preflop? im sure there's spots people are either consciously or unconsciously attacking but i don't see how this can be one of them
i get the whale is in bb so maybe u open slightly wider but you are indifferent with jj and ako facing a 3bet here at equilbrium
if you think he's drastically over 3betting and overbluffing postflop then call down? it reminds me of the other thread where you couldn't 3bet 99 because villain would know and 4b and put in a stack. im sure these guys are ok but people that are great poker players do not become regular 2/5 players
Call down?? There are gazillion bad boards for TT.
These regs probably merge thin value w/bluffs.
Call down for stacks and pray they were bluffing? I rather fold to their 3bets than call off my stack to their 3barrels.
I rather do the 3betting than the calling oop.
As for the 3betting 99 hand, I already said we were already 3betting light a few times, it's not rocket science for villain to fight back with a light 4b, but it seems live players dunno how to light 4b, like yall only think of call call and call only.
Also that hand I was on the btn, fish also limped, v also tightened his opening range.
Now you have contradicting statement. 2/5 reg isn't a linus. Now you say great poker players do not become 2/5 regs.
Also is it possible they play higher stakes but the higher stakes tables weren't open at that time???
