Amanda Knox....Innocent American on trial in Italy or cold-blooded murderer?
There is a lot of speculation about whenther Amanda Knox is innocent or guilty. She is on trial for her life and the co
can't believe there are still people in here who think Knox did it lol....idiots.New doc - Knox goes back to Italy to confront the moronic, incompetent prosecutor.
Cuz the evidence is overwhelming against her and has been thoroughly covered in this huge ass thread.
https://web.archive.org/web/202110311953...
https://web.archive.org/web/202110111942...
https://web.archive.org/web/202110041842...
https://web.archive.org/web/202110051046...
https://web.archive.org/web/202110031829...
Anyone who says she's innocent is either grossly misinformed (which Is what I suspect you are, due to your mistaken belief that there was only one prosecutor), or an outright murderer groupie.
And there were several prosecutors and the one you mean ceased all involvement after trial and successfully convicted Rudy Guede. Knox still had her conviction upheld by other prosecutors at her appellate court.
Even the dubiously acquitting court stated Knox was definitely at the murder, and even washed Meredith's blood off her hands afterwards. They also established that she falsely accused an innocent man to cover for Guede as she was afraid he'd engaged in "retaliatory accusation" against her. She was also afraid he was seen either entering or leaving the cottage. They also state there's "strong suspicion" Sollecito was present. They're all but saying they did it but that it can't be proven. All three are clearly guilty af.
You need to read the court transcripts and judges report or check out Henry's megapost itt.
I'm not an idiot and I very confidently state that Knox is guilty as hell and I'm more informed on the matter than you are, with all due respect. And nobody informed about this case is interested in your linking Knox's continued profiteering off Meredith's murder either.
This thread should be closed, it's just gaslighting at this point or misinformed posters like yourself coming in late and repeating long debunked myths.
cv, every time i looked at the amanda stuff, it felt like it would be normal for her dna to be all over her own apartment
was curious so asked an ai to summarize a timeline based on the evidence - it thought she was innocent and gave this
and i then asked it to give a new timeline assuming her guilt
i have no dog in this fight, have admittedly spent only about half an hour total looking at the wiki only years ago but i also drew the conclusion that it seemed way more likely the local robber was robbing and things went poorly and i always got lost on more than anything, a real lack of motive
would you agree that's an accurate summary?
No it isn't an accurate summary.
Meredith was murdered by multiple attackers and every court, five in total established this, including the dubiously acquitting. AI is only as good as its diet. If all the media reports said a purple elephant murdered Meredith, then that's what AI would regurgitate to you.
No, mixed presumed DNA can't be explained by her living there and the only dna of Knox found apart from in very incriminating places including the staged burglary room, was mixed Sollecito's on a cig butt
https://web.archive.org/web/202110050611...
Burglary was staged and established as such by multiple courts, including the acquitting.
https://web.archive.org/web/202110050927...
Guede's dna was found on a vaginal swab, not necessarily inside Meredith (although it may have been also, as he digitally assaulted her) and again all three are guilty, including Guede. Guede was convicted on less dna evidence (5 samples) than Knox (7 samples)
They didn't scrub all their dna from the crime scene, all three had dna evidence submitted against them, they tried to leave only traces of Guede and were unsuccessful. Prosecution never claimed anything about microscopic dna traces either and a clean up took places by virtue of the fact that their footprints were found using luminol as well as Sollecito's bloody bare footprint on a bathmat.
https://web.archive.org/web/202110042229...
The homeless witness wasn't found unreliable at trial and his testimony withstood defence cross to the court and jury's satisfaction. He was found unreliable on appeal by a court which made 17 grave reversible errors when provisionally acquitting K&S getting annulled for its pains.
Prosecution never claimed "a sex game gone wrong", this is a myth, one of several which permeate this case.
Motive was given at trial and proof of motive isn't required by any court anyway, including US courts and the SC's claim re motive is just one of several examples of their dubious reasoning.
I've already highlighted the evidence to Dominic and there's no way anyone could credibly make a case for innocence based on it. Lots of people have been convicted in western courts on far less evidence than what trial convicted Knox & Sollecito.
Again I think this thread should be locked as it's just going over already covered issues.
Cheers.
what was the motive?
i'm thinking that we have a serial home burglar involved - that can't be a mere coincidence, i imagine he probably assumed that everyone was gone for holiday, broke in, she doesn't realize it's a breakin but goes to see what the noise was and bad things occured and he left as soon as he could
i think if there's evidence she was buying bleach that morning that's huge - so i wonder why that's ignored and i never heard of that
Prosecution stated the relationship deteriorated between both girls due to Knox's constant attention seeking, refusal to di her share of the household chores, her slovenly habits and constantly bringing strange men back to the cottage. It came to a head that night over a row about Merediths missing rent money presumed stolen by Knox, which escalated to murder, which is hardly an outlandish theory.
And again proof of motive isn't required by any court, prosecution only need to prove bard that you did it, not why you did it.
Bloke in my country murdered his flatmate over a €4 internet bill.
Murder is often committed for stupid or trivial or bizarre reasons, and can often occur spontaneously. This was no different. Sometimes murder hasn't any established motive anyway.
There was no real motive given for this serial killer over my way. He's still doing life.
Nobody knows why Steven Paddock murdered over 50 people, evidence still screams he was the Las Vegas shooter.
So ultimately the motive is irrelevant. Evidence shows unequivocally that all three are guilty. Two just got away with it, same way OJ and Casey Anthony did.
Italian Supreme Court is a points of law non jury court. They're not supposed to examine the merits of the case such as evidence or acquit, but only remand a case back to the lower appellate courts if they think the law wasn't applied correctly, so they went beyond their mandate wrt K&S. The sc saying it's "inexplicable" that they left no traces in one room of the crime scene is ****ing ridiculous, and Sollecito did leave traces on Meredith's bra clasp anyway. Lots of convicted killers had no dna evidence against them and left no dna at the actual crime scene, never mind one room of the crime scene. Murderer Simon Hall and child killer ian Huntley left no traces at the crime scene and neither did Huntley's victims or the aforementioned serial killer Mark Nash in my country. No dna evidence was submitted against serial killers Rose West or Lucy Letby- all of these people mentioned were still convicted.
So again this is yet more dubious reasoning by the sc.
And AI did indeed lie re Sollecito leaving no traces in the murder room and re a sex game gone wrong. Check the court sources, prosecution never claimed this. Ai is bullshit for the reason I gave earlier. Mignini claimed they tried to draw Meredith into a violent sexual game against her will with the emphasis on the violence and non consent of the victim, not a sex game "gone wrong", implying willing participation on Meredith's part and this myth is obscene to her.
I only caught your edit- again the burglary was staged and Guede had no prior criminal record before the murder, so he wasn't a serial home burglar. He has no burglary convictions and wasn't even charged with burglary as it was staged by K&S.
Knife contamination wasn't accepted y the court or SC, the SC cited non existent "international standards" which is yet more dubious reasoning by them.
And no offence but I'm not reading walls of inaccurate AI text to refute them point by point as I'll be here all night. If you're that curious then I respectfully suggest you read the court sources or at least the links I provided and also henry's megapost. You'll find it here
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34/ot...
Cheers.
but seriously, i appreciate your thoughts on this, i know it's unlikely the courts would prosecute her without having many people genuinely believe she did it - but when i read the wiki or ask ai it seems to be a pretty "how could you possibly think she did it" situation so i'm glad you took the time to discuss it with me
Come on. Most of the stuff online was written by Americans adamant that their girl couldn't be a murderer. I mean, just look at someone like Dominic who knows very little about the case but still calls people much more knowledgeable than him idiots. That's what we're dealing with, unfortunately.
😀
but seriously, i appreciate your thoughts on this, i know it's unlikely the courts would prosecute her without having many people genuinely believe she did it - but when i read the wiki or ask ai it seems to be a pretty "how could you possibly think she did it" situation so i'm glad you took the time to discuss it with me
Knox's dad hired Merriot & Gogarty PR firm to do a makeover for her, before he even got a lawyer for his daughter and a ton of misinformation was propagated about the case, such as a sex game gone wrong, that Guede was a drifter, that the prosecution claimed Satanism, none of which are true. You should read the thread if you ever get the time it's very informative. One of the wiki founders was also a Knox fan, so the wikipedia page is completely biased. Go into the evidence link I hoghlighted and judge for yourself. It's overwhelming against all three.
And no problem always a pleasure mate 😉
cv, every time i looked at the amanda stuff, it felt like it would be normal for her dna to be all over her own apartment was curious so asked an ai to summarize a timeline based on the evidence - it thought she was innocent and gave thisand i then asked it to give a new timeline assuming her guilti have no dog in this fight, have admittedly spent only about half an hour total
about a year ago AI had no ****ign clue about the karen read case or trial at all and got lots of **** ****ed up and wrong sadly. so idk if its up to speed. they legit got a lot of things wrong which I found odd but again that was year ago.
also rickroll, no metter if youre pro or anti amanda, its obv to see that the police did **** up some investigaiton things in this case which helps the defense
same thing with the poice searching luigis bakcpack with no warrant lol not that it should matter to the jury due to well,..you know..cut and dry
Two thoughts that id like CV or anyone to respond to
Cell phone trackers like in the adnad syed case, did we ever get pings? If a cell phone is on for 30 days out of the month but the one day its off is in the middle of of the month and said thing happens to suspect, is that worthy of investigation (not that this happened ot amanda)
2) Amanda told police Meredith always locked her room, Filomena freaked out when she heard that because she said Meredith never locked her door
is that police trying to sway the investigation or amanda misspoken?
took longer than normal but the King has finally arrived!
Corpus Vile said:
Knox's dad hired Merriot & Gogarty PR firm to do a makeover for her, before he even got a lawyer for his daughter and a ton of misinformation was propagated about the case, such as a sex game gone wrong, that Guede was a drifter, that the prosecution claimed Satanism, none of which are true. You should read the thread if you ever get the time it's very informative. One of the wiki founders was also a Knox fan, so the wikipedia page is completely biased. Go into the evidence link I hoghlighted and judge for yourself. It's overwhelming against all three.
And no problem always a pleasure mate
You've tried this elsewhere CV, and its just not true. Not that the truth matters to you.
According to Selene Nelson's article for the Huffington Post Curt Knox contacted Gogerty-Marriot 3 days after Amanda's arrest which would make it the 9th November 2007, since Amanda was arrested on the 6th November.
"Three days after her arrest, Knox's father hired Seattle publicist David Marriott, of Gogerty Marriott Public Relations Inc. This was, according to Curt Knox, "one of the smartest things we ever did."
By that time Amanda had already been represented in court by Carlo Dalla Vedova on the 8th November during the preliminary hearing. If that's true then CDV was obviously appointed before the Gogerty-Marriot PR company.
Depends what you mean by "game" Massei's considerations are summed-up.
"[394] A motive, therefore, of an erotic, sexually violent nature which, arising from the choice of evil made by Rudy, found active collaboration from Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. That such participation, active and violent, also involved the current defendants in combination with Rudy can be derived from what has been observed in earlier discussion of the wounds suffered by Meredith, of the outcome of the genetic investigations, [and] of the bare footprints found in various parts of the house."(Massei pg 368).
The "sex game gone wrong" theory was the foundation of the case against K&S and was even reintroduced as the, at least, partial reasoning behind Chieffi's Supreme Court decision to retry K&S for murder.
"ranging from agreement on genetic option of death, to the modification of a program that initially contemplated only the involvement of the young English woman in an unwanted sex game, to the forcing of an erotic game pushed by the group, which blew up out of control. (Chieffi page 73)
Corpus Vile said:
Italian Supreme Court is a points of law non jury court. They're not supposed to examine the merits of the case such as evidence or acquit, but only remand a case back to the lower appellate courts if they think the law wasn't applied correctly, so they went beyond their mandate wrt K&S. The sc saying it's "inexplicable" that they left no traces in one room of the crime scene is ****ing ridiculous, and Sollecito did leave traces on Meredith's bra clasp anyway. Lots of convicted killers had no dna evidence against them and left no dna at the actual crime scene, never mind one room of the crime scene. Murderer Simon Hall and child killer ian Huntley left no traces at the crime scene and neither did Huntley's victims or the aforementioned serial killer Mark Nash in my country. No dna evidence was submitted against serial killers Rose West or Lucy Letby- all of these people mentioned were still convicted.
So again this is yet more dubious reasoning by the sc.
M/B's decision to acquit K&S was not beyond their mandate, at least not according to the law.
Article 620
Annulment without referral
l) if the Court of Cassation holds it can either reach a decision if no further ascertainment of the alleged offences is needed, set a new sentence based on the decisions of the merit court or take any other necessary decision, and in any other case in which it believes referral is superfluous.
In other words M/B are upholding their conclusions on the proceedings as detailed in the motivation report:
"
An objectively wavering process, whose oscillations, however, are also the result of clamorous failures, or investigative “amnesia” and of culpable omissions of investigative activity. Had they been carried out these would, in all probability, have led to a picture if not of certainty, at least of tranquil reliability pointing either towards guilt or innocence of today’s accused. Such a scenario, intrinsically contradictory, constitutes in itself already a first and eloquent signal of an investigation that was never capable of reaching a conclusion beyond any reasonable doubt."
In other words it would have been useless to refer the case back to the lower courts since they would just arrive at the same contradictory conclusions as they did before.
"Given the above-mentioned considerations, it is evident that a new trial would be useless, thus the verdict of annulment without a new trial, in accordance with Article 620 letter I) of the Italian Code of Criminal Procedure, thus applying a sentence of not guilty which would also have been reached by any new referral judge, in accordance with the principles of law set out in this judgment."
M/B's considerations on 36b are clear and understandable enough. Your other references, Huntly, West etc., are mere association fallacy. The only thing those cases have in common is fatalities.
_______________________________________
Corpus Vile wrote:
And AI did indeed lie re Sollecito leaving no traces in the murder room and re a sex game gone wrong. Check the court sources, prosecution never claimed this. Ai is bullshit for the reason I gave earlier. Mignini claimed they tried to draw Meredith into a violent sexual game against her will with the emphasis on the violence and non consent of the victim, not a sex game "gone wrong", implying willing participation on Meredith's part and this myth is obscene to her.
I only caught your edit- again the burglary was staged and Guede had no prior criminal record before the murder, so he wasn't a serial home burglar. He has no burglary convictions and wasn't even charged with burglary as it was staged by K&S.
Knife contamination wasn't accepted y the court or SC, the SC cited non existent "international standards" which is yet more dubious reasoning by them.
And no offence but I'm not reading walls of inaccurate AI text to refute them point by point as I'll be here all night. If you're that curious then I respectfully suggest you read the court sources or at least the links I provided and also henry's megapost. You'll find it here
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/3.../...
______________________________________
Your claim of some sort of 3-way sexual misadventure has no evidence to back it up anyway, despite your interpretation of what a "game" is supposed to be. Your attempted seizure of the moral high ground on Meredith's behalf is equally pandering. M/B also acquitted K&S of simulating a break-in as detailed in the motivation report. Yes, Rudy certainly led a charmed life when it comes to his obvious previous burglaries. M/B's reasoning for dismissing 36b as unreliable are detailed in section 4.1.:
"Not only this, but when – as in this case – the outcome of such research depends greatly on scientific investigations, the aseptic collection of all the samples useful for the investigation – in conditions that guarantee prior sterility that avoids possible contamination – constitutes, notably, the first prudent, shrewd and essential prelude – in its turn – of a correct analysis and “reading” of the recovered samples."
That didn't apply to 36b or 165b,as explained in the MR, so you have lost on both points. Compliance with the relevant "standards of protocols" are also referred to in section 4.1. of M/B.
Corpus Vile said:
Meredith was murdered by multiple attackers and every court, five in total established this, including the dubiously acquitting. AI is only as good as its diet. If all the media reports said a purple elephant murdered Meredith, then that's what AI would regurgitate to you.
Yes, multiple attackers has been confirmed by all courts. Massei should have confirmed the opposite in his judgment but he didn't have the gumption to go against Rudy's fast-track trial judgment, which confirmed that he didn't deliver the fatal wound. There's no forensic reason to come to such a conclusion, but Micheli did so, even without the full trial proceedings and consultation with experts.
Corpus Vile said:
No, mixed presumed DNA can't be explained by her living there and the only dna of Knox found apart from in very incriminating places including the staged burglary room, was mixed Sollecito's on a cig butt
https://web.archive.org/web/20211005...r...
There's nothing incriminating about a non-haematic LCN mixed trace of Amanda and Meredith DNA in Filomena's room, especially when investigators traipsed in and out of rooms without changing overshoes; even Filomena could have been responsible for that. I don't think that M/B really did think that the burglary was staged. They acquitted K&S of the charge and might even have used that as their reasoning to send it back to the lower courts if they had decided to do so. After all, if it wasn't K&S, who DID stage the break-in? There's no one else. Instead, M/B decided to annul according to article 620 paragraph L. It's just another way of saying that the act did not exist, or that the means to discern one way or the other didn't exist, such was the investigative incompetence.
Corpus Vile said:
Guede's dna was found on a vaginal swab, not necessarily inside Meredith (although it may have been also, as he digitally assaulted her) and again all three are guilty, including Guede. Guede was convicted on less dna evidence (5 samples) than Knox (7 samples)
They didn't scrub all their dna from the crime scene, all three had dna evidence submitted against them, they tried to leave only traces of Guede and were unsuccessful. Prosecution never claimed anything about microscopic dna traces either and a clean up took places by virtue of the fact that their footprints were found using luminol as well as Sollecito's bloody bare footprint on a bathmat.
All of this is very old and very obsolete; none of it is sustainable either, according to the Supreme Court MR, who rubbish the theory of a clean up in multiple instances.
If all of this is true then you have just destroyed the prosecution's motivation supporting the calunnia conviction which was an attempt to implicate Lumumba in order to protect Rudy. That possibility resurfaced in the M/B motivation report.
Corpus Vile said:
"The homeless witness wasn't found unreliable at trial and his testimony withstood defence cross to the court and jury's satisfaction."
Not to the satisfaction of M/B he didn't. His testimony was an addled memories of the events of Halloween, not the night Meredith died.
Corpus Vile said:
Motive was given at trial and proof of motive isn't required by any court anyway, including US courts and the SC's claim re motive is just one of several examples of their dubious reasoning.
Yet Marasca-Bruno said that motive was absolutely necessary in a purely hypothetical case such as this:
6.1 Erroneous, in the first place, is the assertion regarding the substantive irrelevance of ascertaining the motive of the murderous act.
This cannot be accepted in light of the unquestioned doctrine of this regulating Court (starting from Sec. 1, no. 10841 of 24/09/1992, Scupola, Rv. 192865) relating to the relevance of the motive as a glue that links the various elements of which proof is made, especially in circumstantial cases such as the one at hand. (page 33).
In other words, you just can't get away with making up utter pish as you go along.
Corpus Vile said:
"Lots of people have been convicted in western courts on far less evidence than what trial convicted Knox & Sollecito."
If that's true, then thanks for highlighting the global crisis in our collective justice systems.
Lol, this thread is so old she isn't even hot anymore. And if she did do it and is having to live with it now, maybe she'll forget it as she ages.
Two thoughts that id like CV or anyone to respond toCell phone trackers like in the adnad syed case, did we ever get pings? If a cell phone is on for 30 days out of the month but the one day its off is in the middle of of the month and said thing happens to suspect, is that worthy of investigation (not that this happened ot amanda)2) Amanda told police Meredith always locked he
.
How would either girl know with any certainty whether Meredith locked her door or not unless they were constantly trying to gain access to her room? Amanda would be in the best position to know since she would have walked by Meredith's bedroom en route to the shared bathroom, while, Filomena and Laura shared a different space and bathroom. It's just as likely to be a misunderstanding due to Amanda's limited understanding of Italian.
Just in case anyone missed it the first time:
Quote:
TomG
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Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 2:18 pm
Location: Scotland
Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011
Postby TomG » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:25 am
True to form the Kercher’s don’t want Amanda near Meredith’s grave, but the Daily Mail said this -
“Stephanie Kercher said the family found it ‘incredibly difficult’ to understand how the Italian justice system had failed to give them answers”.
Wouldn’t it be more advisable to pursue these answers from renewed sources rather than ban Amanda from the graveside. On two occasions a guilty verdict was overturned by a higher court so they can have no quibble over the final acquittal, therefore they have no moral high ground in banning Amanda on any matter of being “disrespectful and unacceptable”.
The Kercher’s have moaned for years about not knowing what happened that night, yet it seems that they can’t lift a finger for themselves to try to find out. John Kercher mentioned TJMK in his book,why didn’t the well-informed lawyers of TJMK keep them briefed of affairs?
So there is no other reason to ban Amanda other than a self-righteous and stubborn need to remain steeped in ignorance in order to sustain that moral high ground as far as I can see.
The DM also quotes Stephanie as saying –
“She said there were still doubts over what happened that night as the judges said that Knox and Sollecito were present at the house but not at the scene of the crime”.
If the recent motivation report has re-written Amanda and Raffaele’s presence at the house please let me know.
Hoots.
Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what your country can do for Amanda and Raffaele.
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TomG
Posts: 618
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 2:18 pm
Location: Scotland
^^POS
@Pleasure
Cell phone data showed both switched their phones off, it's covered in the thread, as is Knox lying that Meredith always locked her door and no she didn't misspeak.
as is Knox lying that Meredith always locked her door and no she didn't misspeak.
You don't know that with any degree of certainty; you just made it up. Your reference to a historical post is just another attempt to seize moral high ground that you're not remotely entitled to.
Scum who attacks murder victim's family while simping for crims is on ignore.
