PAHWM: A2s goes bananas

There is research with solvers. Small pps and suited aces play better multiway. Suited connectors and unsuited high cards play worse multiway.

With a small pp or Axs, it is usually better to limp behind at low stakes. Then you can call a raise multiway or fold to a big raise that isn't getting callers. If you raise, it may get 3!, which is a disaster.

You can call with a pp more often to a 3! You need more implied odds for Axs. However, Axs makes more hands when you don't hit big and more draws to semibluff with.

Absolute statements like ''If you raise, it may get 3!, which is a disaster.'' are nonsensical for the most part and the only reason you can confidently make that statement is because hero won a big hand which is just results oriented nonsense.

As for the rest, cba continuing this debate cause it feels like you're just not reading it or keeping up.

Are you semi-bluffing multiway? Say the flop came T97 two hearts in this hand, would you advise Banana to x/r the flop?

I don't know why people think that getting 3! is a "disaster", it narrows down Vs range and we can make a decision to play or not based on various factors. If we choose to continue, we are playing against a more narrow and more defined range. That makes our decisions easier. This is especially true playing at $1/$3 where even the regs don't have anywhere close to enough 3! bluffs. It is very rare that you see anyone ever using a polarized 3! strategy at $1/$3, so you can put them into that upper left corner. Raising and getting 3! is WAY better than going to a flop with absolutely no clue whether your opponents are strong or weak. And if the 3! is large or the player doing the 3! is particularly tight, we can just fold. That's fine, we raised and we got information that we were way behind. There goes $80. In the long run, we more than make up for that with all the times we scoop pre as the limpers fold their trash or when they flat call and play like wet noodles post flop and we get to dictate whether we play a huge pot or a modest one. You simply aren't getting 3! frequently enough at $1/$3 to justify fearing it and players don't play 3! pots well post flop at $1/$3 because they don't 3! and they don't get 3! frequently so they aren't experienced at navigating post flop in these situations. So if you get 3!, play poker and make a decision. That's hardly a "disaster".

I can see the appeal of set mining with a PP. You're going to hit a set a decent amount of time and maybe you get paid off frequently enough. But trying to flush mine with Axs, you only flop a flush less than 1% of the time and you can't push your FDs hard because when the pot goes 4-6 ways it is super common for players to flop 2P, sets and straights that are never folding. If you try to push on the flop, odds are you get your money in HU against the one V who flopped huge and you're a 60/40 to 70/30 dog, but you're forced to call it off because the dead money is just enough to give you the right odds.

Heads up, Axs will hit more hands because when you hit your A it will be good a big chunk of the time. And you can bluff your FDs because its much less likely that one V hit 2P+ and will have more moderate holdings that can be pushed off.

Well, this is where our disagreement is then. I think it's horrible to go to HU SPR <= 4 flops with speculative dominated hands that aren't going to hit (either for value or semi-bluff) remotely enough. In fact, a huge part of my ~shortstack strategy (where it is often trivial to setup this situation with a single raise) is doing exactly this against my far too loose opponents who are simply hemorrhaging money by seeing a flop.

GgoodluckthoG

Obviously, checkraising a flush draw with Axs on a T97 flop multiway would be really bad. Bad flop to do that on.

Playing a 3-bet pot 2 or 3 way against a strong range with Axs is probably losing. You also may not be getting the odds to play a small pp HU and shallow after the 3!.

If some OMC makes a small 3! and it goes 4-ways to the flop, it is a great situation for 44 etc. getting good immediate odds and he probably has QQ+ and will pay off if you hit.

I mean cooooooooome on rofl. You're making this way too easy.

You're obviously gonna have to connect the dots for me.

Gandwhileyou'reatitmaybedialdownthecondescensionabit?G

I apologize, not at all trying to be condescending but short stacking? In 2025? People still do that?

BUMP! (for docvail & yamihere)