Bad to show?
1/3 NL. Hero raises UTG to 15 with QcJc, LJ and BTN call. Flop (43) Kc2c2d x/x/x. Turn 9s, hero bets 30/fold/call. River 7h (101) hero bets 75/fold. Villain folds 33 face up, and hero shows.
Villain went away from the table for a while and then left 20 minutes after coming back. Villain had rebought twice, but had a big stack and was somewhat up. Hero did not consider him a good player.
Villain had called down maniac's big barrels with less than top pair twice and one and other time called down maniac when maniac had aces up and lost. Hero kind of couldn't resist and also thought it would be good to show bluff with tight image and thought it might tilt villain. Hero likes to sometimes show one or both cards, but didn't remember showing a bluff when someone folded face up before.
Is it bad to show a bluff when someone folds face up?
Ages ago, when I first started, I used to show bluffs.
I was playing maniacal style.
What happened was everyone turned into a station. I punted stacks after stacks.
Nowadays, I never show. Yet just when I thought I have nitty image, my opponents plays beg to differ.
Anyhow, showing to tilt or to show a whale that you can bluff can make the game better for you.
But that said, better players might gather info on your plays but it didn't matter too much right? Since your focus was on weaker players like villain.
Let's ignore how absolutely silly it is to run an out-of-position, multi-barrel, low equity bluff against a calling station. We'll save that for another thread.
You want to know if showing is good?? The answer is in your original post. Just look at the outcomes. A bad player with a large chipstack left the table and the tight image you just used to win a hand is now blown.
What part of that is good?
What outcome were you hoping for?
Let's ignore how absolutely silly it is to run an out-of-position, multi-barrel, low equity bluff against a calling station. We'll save that for another thread.
After it checked through, I delayed cbet semibluffed. Then I had no showdown value, so had to bluff the river.
I wanted to get action for my good hands, because I wasn't bluffing much, because bluffing doesn't work that well at 1/3. I was hoping villain would tilt and call me down light later on.
I partly couldn't resist when he showed the 3s. Not totally strategic. Then wondered if it was a bad idea when he left. Could have just shown one card.
I partly couldn't resist when he showed the 3s. Not totally strategic. Then wondered if it was a bad idea when he left. Could have just shown one card.
He showed the threes to say "I almost called you down with this dogcrap".
It wasn't a compliment. He clearly doesn't think you're nitty. No need to confirm what he seems to already know.
I like better showing one card in retrospect. Then I might have a busted flush draw, but could have KQ or QQ.
I guess I was sort of thinking he was a station and had a big stack, so after showing the bluff I might be able to stack him with a set or something.
I know personally I attempt to never show. I'm always polite about it (Q: "Will you show if I fold?" A: "Oh, sorry man, I never show, no offense!"). And I mostly just loop back exactly what is guessed (Q: "I know you had the flush." A: "Yup, I had the flush!"). Just think it's probably best overall to not give out any unnecessary info and let them be as unknowledgeable as possible as to what we are doing.
ETA: From the reverse perspective as someone simply sitting at the table and constantly evaluating / re-evaluating opponents by their actions, it is much more difficult to do when they never show hands they don't have to.
GcluelessNLnoobG
I think showing a bluff can come across as kind of rude, like you're rubbing it in.
I'm not against it though. It's one of those things where every situation is kind of different and it all depends on the vibe and how it's executed and received.
Showing a bluff to rub it in to a friendly fish is usually no bueno.
Showing a bluff as part of some friendly ribbing can keep the game loose so more money is flowing.
Then sometimes someone is just being a dick and you want to stick it to them. I'm fine with that as well. Haha
You’re three positions to a whale’s left and think you need to embarrass tilt him in order to get his money at 1-3?
You could’ve just said “my pair’s bigger” or “my pair’s not big but it’s bigger than that”.
I only show bluffs in wild games where most of the table is laughing up or down and other people have already shown them.
At least once a session I’ll toss AK or just an A out if I win a pot on flop or turn Axxx board. Usually small pots but occasionally good size. One time in 2-5 couple limps, mp fish made it 25, couple calls, I call on button with ATs, BB & limps call.
Flop A87r, checks to me, folds to me, I put a stack of red out, folds to fish who tank folds, folds to cutoff (legit pro) who pause sigh folds, I tossed the A out immediately.
Let's ignore how absolutely silly it is to run an out-of-position, multi-barrel, low equity bluff against a calling station. We'll save that for another thread.
In what world is it silly to bet the turn with a flush draw and a gutshot, zero showdown value and having faced a flop that has checked around, "absolutely silly"? This is a flop that OOP could easily check top pair which doesn't need much protection on this dry flop (admittedly IP could check back a weak top pair for the same reason). You probably want to read up what "low equity bluff" means.
I very rarely show, but showing when you've just achieved exactly what you'd hoped to achieve - pushing a sticky pair off the best hand - definitely doesn't seem to be the best idea without a very good reason
In a world where we're betting into TWO calling stations who will look us up as wide as pocket 3's.
zero showdown value
Probably should have bet the flop then. that's where the hand was botched. You can't fix it now by spewing.
and having faced a flop that has checked around
what does that tell you? It means V's either have
A) showdown value and no reason to fold. (see results for proof)
B) total air which you don't necessarily want to fold out. You beat some of it and other hands like AT can be good value targets if we make our draw on the river.
C) Draws. They could have all the Axcc combos which account for about half of the likely flush draws in their range. So at best this is a neutral result. But we're out of position so we'll under-realize and take a higher risk of reverse implied odds.
"absolutely silly"?
Yes, for all the aforementioned reasons
You probably want to read up what "low equity bluff" means.
How much equity do we have against hands that call? Even with 18 outs against pocket 3's we were still a 2 to 1 underdog. Against a King, a Deuce, or Axcc, we're in even worse shape.
I wanted to get action for my good hands, because I wasn't bluffing much, because bluffing doesn't work that well at 1/3. I was hoping villain would tilt and call me down light later on.
The "let me show a bluff, because I'm never bluffing" strat. is pretty common, IMO. Even to the point where it's a noticeably common strategy to sit down and play insane for a couple of hands, show the bluffs and then play super tight.
Would even go as far as to say that showing a bluff is usually a significant indicator that people should mostly fold to your bets.
Also, in my experience, showing a bluff to a random will sometimes get them to start doing crazy things (like never folding bottom pair, or randomly bluffing more) ... hence the above strat. being pretty good vs. bad players, but to gain from it you have to have a v. good hand or understand what's happening and "overplay" medium strength hands.
FWIW I basically never show bluffs at the casino anymore, the one exception being it's a big pot and V shows and asks to see what I had.
I show TPTK+ a lot though, to people calling super wide pre. and x/f the flop.
I like to show one card and showing Qc or Jc would basically have given no additional information. I kind of thought it was funny to show there. I realized afterwards that I was embarrassing the fish with a big stack, which was a big mistake.
Before I ever think about showing a hand, I decide who I want to be at this table today.
Do I want to be the invisible reg who never gives away information? Do I want to be the friendly presence who keeps the game comfortable for the weaker players? Do I want to be steady and boring, letting them make mistakes in peace? Do I want to feel the jolt of emotion that comes with revealing a successful bluff?
Once you start “sending messages” with reveals, you’re not just shaping your image - you might be shaping the lineup.
I wouldn't consider this a mistake: sometimes showing a bluff really increases tilt, especially against a weak reg. But if the goal is stable EV, it's better to avoid showdowns. By the way, many people now practice through online games and this also changes the metagame.
LOL at all these attempted mind games. You really think you can control people's thoughts by flashing some playing cards??
Show the bluff and tilt him!
Balance your nitty image
Show one and leave him guessing!!
My opponents are losing sleep wondering what I had!
You people are insane.
ROFL.........
I can shape the entire table lineup by showing a bluff!!
If you have to show your bluffs you’re probably not bluffing enough…
If an opponent shows what he folded, just to be a jerk, I might show the bluff, if I think it may tilt him. But mostly, no, I don't show. If anything, I'll tap the table, and say "good fold" with a conciliatory tone.
It's hard to make good hands. Getting opponents to fold to our bluffs is critical. The last thing we want is for them to get sticky when the cards can turn cold at any time. I want to encourage them to continue letting me take down the pot without a fight.
Unfortunately people try to get me to show my bluffs far more often than I would want. In those cases I alternate between showing and mucking with my tail between my legs.
